Quark Forums

Like the title says... how do I get illustrator CS3 PMS colors to match the same PMS in Quark 7?

I import an EPS file into Quark. It has PMS 871 in it. The Quark 7 file also has a shape in it colored PMS 871. They're the same exact PMS color and it looks ok onscreen, but when I print they're totally different.

 

How do I get Quark 7 PMS to match Ill CS3 PMS? 

 The simplest way would be to import the illustrator image then use the colour it brings with it in Quark, then it'll definitely match.

 The problem is caused by differing CMYK mixes between Quark and Illustrator. There are new colour books around now - Pantone ColorBridge for a start - and the mixes have changed.

 I tend to allow illustrator to pull in its colours, then when I've finished the job I delete any colours I made in Quark, if their names clash with the illustrator ones, and replace them with the ill ones then I know all will match and sep correctly.

Greg 

 I tried that, but it doesn't work. The colors were certainly closer, but still did not match. FYI, the color in question here is PMS 871, a gold metallic color. I'll try it with some other PMSes...

Interesting........ I tried a new document, importing a CS3 EPS containing squares of both PMS 185 and PMS 871. Then I made two squares using the box tool in Quark 7... one PMS 185 and the other PMS 871. The PMS 185 matches exactly... PMS 871 does not.

I'm wondering if maybe all the metallics are messed up and hopefully the normal PMS colors are ok?

Nothing is 'messed up' as such, it's just like I said the CMYK mixes for a lot of Pantone colours have changed. Look at the mix of a particular colour in Quark, ID, Illustrator and Photoshop and you'll have a fair chance of seeing 4 differing sets of values. Remember Pantone colours are meant to be special, spot prints. But if you use them as a guide then double check the mixes later when artworking the job (or on the fly if you prefer) you'll have no problems. This isn't anything new, to be fair. I remember many years ago having to make 100% certain the illustrator name for a colour matched the Quark name perfectly or you'd get different plates - assuming the colour was meant to be a spot. Hell, you still have to do this!

If you look at how many colour books there are - Pantone old style, GOE, ColorBridge and others like Toyo etc, it's no surprise CMYK mixes don't match. And that's before you get in to trying to make a CMYK mix actually look like the Pantone colour in the first place as some, obviously, are totally unachievable in CMYK space!

njones:

 I tried that, but it doesn't work. The colors were certainly closer, but still did not match. FYI, the color in question here is PMS 871, a gold metallic color. I'll try it with some other PMSes...

 

Sorry, perhaps I didn't make my suggestion clear. Import the Illustrator file - it'll bring it's version of PMS 871 with it. Then use that colour instead of making a Quark version, or delete the Quark version and when it asks what colour to use as a replacement select the illustrator imported PMS.

Alternatively, if you don't need the PMS colour to be a spot open both and make the CMYK mix match exactly. Job done.

Greg 

(Before I forget to say it... thanks for your help!) 

 

Anyway...  

 

thing:

Sorry, perhaps I didn't make my suggestion clear. Import the Illustrator file - it'll bring it's version of PMS 871 with it. Then use that colour instead of making a Quark version, or delete the Quark version and when it asks what colour to use as a replacement select the illustrator imported PMS.

Like I said... I tried exactly that and it DOES NOT WORK for PMS 871. It does however work for PMS 185.

I had a new blank Q7 doc with no colors in it except the defaults. I imported my EPS which had both PMS 185 and 871 squares in it. Those two colors were automatically added into the color list in Quark. I then used those exact colors to make two more squares in Quark. I did not go to Edit / Colors / New and add new colors..... I used the colors that were imported from the EPS file.

PMS 185 matches. PMS 871 does not.

 

 Well that's bizarre. What would happen, I wonder, if you edit the illustrator PMS871 within Quark - make it CMYK and even rename it, then print the file with the imported illustrator image showing that colour and a Quark box coloured locally. Very odd.

 PS You're welcome - lots of guessing going on here though!

thing:

Sorry, perhaps I didn't make my suggestion clear. Import the Illustrator file - it'll bring it's version of PMS 871 with it. Then use that colour instead of making a Quark version, or delete the Quark version and when it asks what colour to use as a replacement select the illustrator imported PMS.

Alternatively, if you don't need the PMS colour to be a spot open both and make the CMYK mix match exactly. Job done.

Greg 

 

This is one of my pet hates. With quark7, unlike every other version of quark THIS DOESN'T WORK, AND ITS INTENDED NOT TO WORK BY QUARK

Change the name of your PANTONE spot colour in Illustrator to something other than PANTONE then follow things instuctions and you'll get the cmyk split you want.

If an imported Spot Colour has the same name as one in a quark7 PANTONE library then the elements coloured up in quark use the quark library numbers and Lab as an alternative composite colour space, so if the numbers dont match between illy and quark you get two different cmyk splits when you output, you need either to print as a spot colour, or print as a spot colour and use Pitstop or something to remap the "two" spots (the same name but different alternative colour spaces) back to a common cmyk break. 

At the end of this excersize you can actually be grateful that Quark can't put transparency in a pdf. 

 

try this at home:

In Illustrator create a spot color swatch make it a red Color and Call it PANTONE 539 C (which is a dark blue), create an object and color it up then save it as an EPS.

Create a brand New quark document and place the EPS, this will bring into the color palette a Dark Blue swatch called PANTONE 539 C.

Next create a box in quark and color that with PANTONE 539 C. so on screen you now have a red item and a blue item.

Export to PDF as spot color.

Look at the PDF both elements appear Red, (Ah Ha, this is what I want - I think) but convert that pdf to cmyk and one element is dark Blue one is Red.

Now I know this is an extreme example, but follow the logic where the color shift is slight and the PDF is put to a RIP which converts all spots to CMYK and you have an unhappy corporate.
 

All techniques for matching process colors to PMS spot colors aside (the photoshop method, BTW, is TERRIBLE. Photoshop's guesses are so far off, I'm not sure why Adobe even included the feature).... you will NEVER get PMS 871 to match process. Everything above PMS 871 are metalic inks. They contain metal flakes which means there is no way to reproduce them in process. A close tint is PMS 126 or 1265. - - From what I understand, the best way to get close it to buy the pantone bridge system. But I haven't bought it yet so I can't confirm that. Trial and error has been my technique. Create a square of the process color in Illustrator. Create another square touching the first square and fill it will spot colors until you get close. Once you get a visual match, you can turn the newly-found PMS color into CMYK and see how close the values match. Far from an ideal procedure, but so far it;s the only way I can be confident that I've gotten close.

So you are saying that you trust that the rgb representation you are seeing on your screen (of a cmyk value square and a Lab based Pantone converted to cmyk square) and this is going to give you confidence in the actual print looking right. I don't see any logic in this at all. Trial and error is perhaps the best method of getting the closest possible match to a Pantone but you need to be looking at stuff printed on your final device (or at least a properly calibrated and targeted ink-jet versus the PANTONE Book) to make that comparison with any true confidence.