Quark Forums

I'm having a hard time figuring out the relationship of Master Pages to Books and the layouts that are chapters.

I can create a book without a problem; I can add layouts without a problem, each as chapters.  I can use the Master Pages from each layout/chapter to modify the pages in that chapter.

However, I am having a hard time figuring out what exactly the Master page for the book does.  If I create a "master layout" with various design and text features that I want on each page, great--I can do this.  I can export this layout to use as the base for each chapter.  I've done that.

However, now I've created a 100 page book with 50 2-page chapters.  I decide I want to change a graphic element on the book's master page.  I can do this.  But, I can not figure out how to get this one change on the book Master to flow to all chapters and all pages.

I think I understand the relationship between the Master Page(s) and the layout pages on each individual .qxp file that is a chapter.  However, I can't seem to get any global changes made on the Book master page to flow down to the pages in the book.  The only thing that I see useful so far here is the page numbering.

Is there a way of getting this to happen?  What exactly is the book master page doing if the only thing of use to the actual pages and chapters is their master page?

The QXP documentation touches on the easy stuff like book creation and how to add chapters.  It doesn't describe this.  My 3rd party books are only on 7.3.1 and don't seem to cover it well, either.  They talk mostly about layout page master changes, not books, and even what they describe such as changing fonts on the master, etc. do not happen the same way in 8.01.

Any insight would be appreciated.

MDS in MI

 I've the same problem and i hadn't found anything about this in the documentation. ¿Could anybody help us?

 Thanks in advance.

MDSinMI:

I can add layouts without a problem, each as chapters.

 

I'm not sure if you are mixing Quark terms, but a Project is like what other programs call files or documents. Each project can contain one or more Layouts. Layouts are like individual files, but all contained within one project. You can use layouts for a variety of things, like a multiple single-language brochurres. Each layout could have the same graphics and general layout, but you could have a different layout for each language without having different project files. Another could be a business card, letterhead and envelope all in one project.

You probably know that, but from your post, I couldn't tell if your chapters were projects or layouts within a single project.

To make a book, you go to File>New>Book, give it a name, save it somewhere, then add projects to the book as chapters.

MDSinMI:

What exactly is the book master page doing if the only thing of use to the actual pages and chapters is their master page?

 Where is the "book master" you are talking about? I'm new to version 8, but I don't remember a single master page that controls the whole book. You can syncronize things like styles, lists and colors, but to have the same master pages in all of the chapters, I think you have to do that manually. If you want to change the look of all of the master pages like moving, resizing, adding or removing elements, you could do all of that to the first chapter, select all, copy, then paste-in-place on the master pages of the other chapters.

Also, and this is just for my curiosity, why 50 2-page chapters, instead of fewer chapters with more pages in each?

There is a cool feature: in Edit go to Item find/change Use tabs to specify object you need to manipulate with. or don't use this tabs but select your item and in Item find/change press the black triangle (it's on top of the window, looks like a "play" button) than acquire all attributes. Press Find next to check if everything correct and than specify your changes into the opposite column Change to. And finally press "Change all" Unfortunately that's only one feature i know, that makes global changes. I currently search for feature that select all text with my attributes and apply a style from the style sheets (like in MSword '07)

Hi,

No, I'm not confusing the terms.  In a Quark "book", your projects can have only a single layout anyway.  So each layout is a project and vice versa.

Why 50 2 page chapters?  Because that is what the specific requirements of the book call for.  FWIW there are 50 contributors; 50 sets of photos, and 50 short narratives each occupying one 2-page spread.

When you create a book in QXP, the first layout/project you add as a chapter becomes the master; it is a master page just as a master page A-Master-A is to a layout.  But, because the layout you are adding already has this, I'm not sure what the addition of the book master does.  It is not explained well at all.

MDSinMI:

When you create a book in QXP, the first layout/project you add as a chapter becomes the master…

That's true.

MDSinMI:

…it is a master page just as a master page A-Master-A is to a layout.

No, its not a master page.

MDSinMI:

But, because the layout you are adding already has this, I'm not sure what the addition of the book master does.  It is not explained well at all.

You are confusing a master page with a master chapter. They aren't the same.

Quark help file:

When you add the first chapter to a book, it becomes the master chapter by default. The master chapter defines the style sheets, colors, hyphenation and justification specifications, lists, and dashes and stripes that will be used throughout the book. These attributes are specific to the master chapter: nonmaster chapters have attributes independent of those in the master chapter.

The reason that there is a master chapter is because of syncronization. Presumably, you want consistent styles, colors, H&J's, etc. Suppose your page numbers are 0-100-100-0, and before the book is finished, your editor tells you they need to be 100-100-0-0. You wouldn't want to have to add a new color, apply that color to the paragraph style for the page number, then do that to each chapter. As a convenience, you can do it to the master chapter, then syncronize the other chapters and what ever you sync will be made consistent.

If you want to change the master pages on each chapter, you can use syncronize to change what ever is syncable, but if you want to change (for example) the position of the page number, you will have to do that manually on each chapter individually.

Well, perhaps I'm beginning to understand just a little, but not much.  The things that the Master Chapter keeps for the book seem to be mostly (perhaps not all) the same as the A-Master-A does for a layout....things such as H&J, colors etc.  So we have 2 "masters" so to speak.  Which does what?

It is not explained well at all.

 Master pages don't have anything to do with H&Js or colors. All new pages are blank by default because the default master page (A-Master-A) is blank. If you want page numbers, shapes or lines on every page, you place them on a master page and apply the master page to document pages.

For example, if you had a catalog with 200 product pages (showing a photo and short description of each item) that had a blue background and 20 section pages (that showed the name and page of each item) that had a red background, you could make a master page for each, and apply them to the document pages.

There are lots of traps you can get yourself into that require lots of work to get out of if you aren't careful. I think you would benefit by spending some time with an instructional book. Amazon and most of the big book stores have books on Quark, and if you search the forum, you can probably find recommendations from fellow users. 

I actually have three good books on Quark that I bought prior to getting the software!  These are from Against the Closk (Creating Digital Documents); Visual Quickstart Guide, and Real World.  Unfortunately these are all for QXP 7.  I actually spoke with 2 of the 3 publishers and they had no plans to introduce anything for QXP 8.0  They said it is too expensive to produce these books for such a limited audience--their words not mine.  QXP 7 was their last.

Your advice in the 3rd paragraph is sage, and specifically what I'm trying to avoid.  Each book dwells on different items in different ways.  All are pretty similar in their description on books--adding chapters, etc. but pretty vague on the specifics of the relation between master chapter and how it affects the book chapters.  Some give great advice ("once a layout becomes a chapter in a book, NEVER open the project/layout outside of the book menu and modify it) others don't mention that at all.

I've sat down and tried to make things work the way they say it is supposed to and short of automatic page numbering (which works exactly as they say) I'm struggling to understand the rest.  I don't know if it is a version difference (7 vs 8) or something in concept.

I don't think "Book" functionality has changed much, if at all, since it was introduced back in... what... Quark 4? So the ducumentaion you have on QX7 Books should be correct.

 The info migman has given is pretty much all you need to know in a nutshell. As he said, there's no such thing as a Master Page for the entire book (although I can see why one might come in handy!), so don't let the word "master" in the term "Master Chapter" fool you -- the only things you can synchronize are Styles, Colors, H&Js, Lists and Dashes & Stripes. So it's the old copy/paste routine to "synchronize" your Master Pages, I'm afraid...