Quark Forums

Hi

 I've had a search around for this, but any solutions seem to implicate font software, and I don't think that's my issue.

We have some old macs running Quark 4. When I try and open files created on these on OSX, Quark 7, the fonts are not displaying correctly. Quark is recognising the fonts, meaning they are appearing in the text selection box but the characters are not appearing correctly. If I try and change to any other font, I'm having the same problem. I don't think it's an issue with Fontexplorer as my fonts are being activated. It's like some kind of encoding problem. If I create a new document in 7, the aren't any issues.

 Anybody know what's happening?

 Thanks in advance!

 In what way are the fonts not displaying correctly? Are the glyphs changing, are the lines breaking differently, or does it look like a different font alltogether?

One possibility is that while you have an OS9 font on your OSX computer, it isn't the one that Quark is using. Maybe you are seeing a different font technology (like a .dfont) with the same name as the OS9 font that is causing the difference. What fonts are giving you the trouble, and are they PostScript or Truetype?

You could also try thumbnail dragging the newly-opened pages to a new Quark 7 file, or appending the layout from the old file to a new one. That step is usually recommended when opening old files in a new version. Just keep a copy of the original file because some things like index tags don't transfer over a thumbnail drag.

Thanks for the response....

The glyphs are changing, some characters are correct others aren't.

It's a postcript font on OS9. So is the problem that although Quark can see the font type it's been built for OS9, so I've got no way round it?

I didn't fully understand the last step - not something I'm familiar with. I tried appending but nothing appeared in my new document?

Any more help greatly appreciated...

 Chris

 I'd go with mig's theory about font substitution. XPress 4 is probably calling for an old OS9 font and because of the way OSX works, it uses an OSX font instead and so you have this problem. A way to check is to do the following. Find out which font is your problem. Then go and look in the following folders:

Macintosh HD>Library>Fonts

Macintosh HD>Users>~username>Library>Fonts

If you see a font in either one of those folders that has the same name as the font that XPress 4 was calling for, then most likely this is what's happening. OSX is using the newer font.

I'm betting mig is right here.

I think I understand.

So I'm in OS9 and the document is fine, I transfer it to OSX and although it's calling the correct font. i.e. it's listed in my font choices in Quark, it is using a newer version?

The font in question is appearing in  Macintosh HD>Library>Fonts but not in Macintosh HD>Users>~username>Library>Fonts on OSX.

If this is the case is there anything I can do? Is there anyway for OSX to use the older font? 

I read about font priority order and if you have the classic environment installed you can force the application to use OS9 fonts? I'm a bit lost with this though - we're not talking about the fonts themselves but the way the OS registers them? So on my machine the font is registered for OSX not OS9. If I have classic environment installed it will have the same font registered to work with OS9? I could then force the system to use OS9 registered fonts.....

Hey sounds plausible, but messy?

Thanks for your help.....

 Library>Fonts takes priority over ~username>Library>Fonts.

Think of it this way. Library>Fonts, available to all users. ~username>Library>Fonts available to that user only.

OS9 Classic fonts are at the bottom of the hierarchy. Consequently, if you have say Helvetica in the Library>Fonts, OSX is going to use that Helvetica over any Helvetica stored in the OS9 System>Fonts folder. The one exception to this is if you start Classic and use those fonts IN Classic apps.

So.. The only course of action you have is to remove the font that is in the Library>Fonts folder and replace it with the one in the Classic folder. Now, here is where this get's messy. If the font you need to pull out of there is a font that the OS relies on and you are running Leopard then Leopard is going to automatically replace the font you just pulled out — unless you tell it not to. If it's not a font the OS relies on then it should not be an issue. To tell Leopard to stop replacing system fonts, open FontBook and uncheck these preferences: Automatic Font Activation and Alert Me If System Fonts Change.

Have a look here.  This is a handy guide that will show you exactly which fonts you HAVE to keep in the various font folders. Again, if the one you are having issues with isn't on the required list than you can just replace it with the one from the Classic folder. Follow the guide if what you need to do is remove Helvetica or Courier!

That SHOULD take care of it. If it does not, we may need to purge font caches (which is not half as scary, or dangerous, as it may sound, and easy to do).

Hope some of that helps.

Thanks

So...

1. I have to install OS9

2. I have to move the fonts from OS9 to the relevant folder.

3. I have to delete the font I need from higher up the hirearchy, (unless, as I've read a third party font application will read all of them?)

The result of this will be that Quark drills down to the OS9 font folder and uses this.

But I still have a question - what make the font OS9? Is it because it has been registered and installed on a different machine, or that it was written for OS9 and I have a new version on my machine....This bit has really got me confused!

Chris

P.S. I did try the language changing idea, but it had no effect, accept of course for changing the program language!

 Maybe you should tell us:

1. What version of OSX you are using (from About This Mac in the Apple menu)
   
2. What kind of Mac you are using (G4, G5, Intel…)
3. What fonts we're talking about
   

chrissyb:

Thanks

So...

1. I have to install OS9

No. You can copy the font from the install disk. Or if it's a non-standard OS9 font (i.e., not one that's part of a standard install) then copy it from wherever it is right now.

chrissyb:

2. I have to move the fonts from OS9 to the relevant folder.

Yes. See my response to 1.

chrissyb:

3. I have to delete the font I need from higher up the hirearchy, (unless, as I've read a third party font application will read all of them?)

Yes. In the Library>Fonts folder as you had mentioned earlier. Most Font Managers will activate fonts in the location where they are. However, very  few font managers are capable of overriding system fonts. Which is why you need to remove the newer font from the Library>Fonts folder. It's unlikly to be overridden.

chrissyb:

The result of this will be that Quark drills down to the OS9 font folder and uses this.

No. Your action of removing the problem font from the Library>Fonts folder and then copying the font you need IN TO the Library>Fonts folder (i.e., replacing the problem font with the OS9 font) causes the OS to see the new font which is now in Library>Fonts (because you copied it there).

chrissyb:

But I still have a question - what make the font OS9? Is it because it has been registered and installed on a different machine, or that it was written for OS9 and I have a new version on my machine....This bit has really got me confused!

It's not an "OS9" font. It's either a Truetype or Postscript font, both of which were the dominant fonts during the OS9 era. Apple introduced DFonts when it created OSX. Dfonts are unreadable by OS9, but OSX understands Truetype and Postscript fonts. Dfonts and Opentype fonts (a different type of font) have expanded gylphs (characters). PS and TT fonts have limited glyphs. Font technology has advanced since the OS9 era. Yes, your newer font is causing the problem. The older font is what was used in the QXP 4.x document. That's why you want to replace the newer font with the older one.

chrissyb:

P.S. I did try the language changing idea, but it had no effect, accept of course for changing the program language!

I don't know much about this.

 Mig's queries on your system stats are standard and it helps us to help you. Can you fill us in on his questions?

Mac OSX 10.5.5 G5 Power PC.The font in question is KpPalazzo - the information in Fontexplorer is telling me it's truetype, the one I've got installed in OSX.

So it begs the question if the one from OS9 is any different...That's why are got confused whether or not OS9 registers the fonts!!!

Thanks for the detailed reply, and sorry for the delay in replying. I've not had chance to try it yet, but if the font I've got installed on OSX is truetype - would I be having the problems..?

Chris

 If the font was on your OS9 machine for a long time and you copied it over to your OSX machine, it could have become damaged at some point. If you have the original disks it came from, maybe you should trash the copy you have and reinstall a fresh one. That's just a guess.

 If KpPalazzo on the OSX machine was copied from OS9 at some point then the problem is probably what Mig says – corruption. If, however, KpPalazzo was acquired for the OSX machine from a source different than the OS9 machine it's possible that the two fonts (even if they are both truetype) are different.