Quark Forums

I was on 10.5.8 and qurak 7.31.  I upgraded Quark to 7.5 and upgraded to 10.6 (Snow Leopard).

Now when I open documents made pre-upgrade my fonts are moving from where they were. To a new lower positon. examples:

Before Update. 10.5.8 and Quark 7.31 

 

After Update. 10.6 and Quark 7.5


The blue is becuase the text is highlighted during the screen capture. The way I got these captures is that I have 2 macs at my business. One is updated, one isn't. Other than the update, the 2 machines are identical. This is actually the same file on our server open at the same time on both machines.

This is very bad!

I can't have the type in the hunderds of layouts I've created in the past 10 years in Quark suddenly shifting around. It would take untold hours to fix everything. And then what if someone who hasn't updated opens my "updated" files? Will it shift back?

Like I said this is the exact same file. It lookes like baseline shift has been applied or vertical center is on, but it's not. What is going on?

 What is the font? Any chance when you updated the OS it installed a different version of the font in your layout?

 It's Adobe's Helvetica Neue. Black in this case.

 How do you activate your fonts? By placing them in one of the font folders? If so, which one is this font in? If not, what font utility do you use?

 I think I can guess what happened here. A trend certainly seems to be starting. The font you were using before upgrading was Adobe's Helvetica Neue, correct? And then you upgraded to Snow Leopard correct?

So, the OS installer because it's been a default for a long time goes and installs it's own version of Helvetica Neue in the System>Library>Fonts folder. Which gives it priority over (if it did not ouright replace your Adobe font) the other font. So, now your system is using Apple's recently installed Helvetica Neue.

 The answer is to delete the Helvetica Neue that Apple installed and replace it with your Adobe font. But, beware, unlike with Tiger, Apple implemented an automatic replacement system starting with Leopard. So, the moment you try to replace this font (by deleting it), the OS will automatically replace it with the same copy.

There are a couple of ways around this. Do a Google search for Snow Leopard and Helvetica Neue.

A lot of people seem to be unaware that the installer will always replace it's own versions of fonts back in to the system folders anytime there is an upgrade. This effectively wipes out any other Helvetica's, etc. you may be using with the Apple supplied fonts.

 I use Suitcase Fusion 12.1.7

 

I'll look into this Helvetica Neue thing and see if it is only involving documents that use it. If this is the case then I assume InDesign and Illustrator and pretty much any program/document that I used Helevtica Neue in are going to be jacked up under Snow Leopard? I'll test it in InDesign tomorrow. Both computers have it installed as well.

 

mSum:

 I use Suitcase Fusion 12.1.7

 

I'll look into this Helvetica Neue thing and see if it is only involving documents that use it. If this is the case then I assume InDesign and Illustrator and pretty much any program/document that I used Helevtica Neue in are going to be jacked up under Snow Leopard? I'll test it in InDesign tomorrow. Both computers have it installed as well.

That would be my guess. I'm on Tiger, so any system font overrides that Fusion may have I'm not sure how they would work in Leopard/Snow Leopard.

It's not a Helvetica issue. As an example, this spread uses MetaPlus:http://www.violetmount.com/quark3.png

Many other fonts suffer the same problem - Frutiger, Gill, Futura, Bliss. They'll be many more.

I use Linotype Font Explorer for activation by the way, and the problem occurs in Quark 7.52, 8 and 8.1 on Snow Leopard.

How Quark can declare 8.1 is compatible with SL is beyond me. No version of Quark works in Snow Leopard at present.

Same problem with Quark 8.0 and 8.1 in combination with Snow leopard. And it is definetly NOT a font issue! The thing that makes me really angry, is that Quark advertizes version 8.1 to be fully compatible and developed for Snow Leopard. Instead, they should have given out a warning NOT to upgrade to Snow Leopard if you work with Quark Xpress and if you need it to earn money with the software!!!!!!! Maybe it is a good moment in time to switch to InDesign... I am going to test what my files look like after using Q2ID, and then opening them in InDesign. I was working with Quark Xpress since 1990, but now it seems my patience is running out...

Hi Alexis... I am having the exact same problem using Quark 8.1 and Frutiger.... I thought it was a Suitcase Fusion issue... so I wrote off to their support people... the said to wait for the Suitcase update.. which arrived this morning.... I updated and opened my Quark documents again and no change... so I came on here to see if there was any other people having the same problem... and then I come across your post..... which is the very same problem I'm having.... which is very dangerous as I can't trust my legacy documents to hold their font leading or location or settings... Do you know if Quark have any workaround... or if they have even acknowledged the issue... and where the fault and possible solution lies ? Drop me a reply when you get an opportunity. Regards, Anthony Irish MacUser & MacAddict

Hi Anthony. Deafening silence from Quark at the moment. I've tried messing about with all the preferences, but it seems that it's a simple issue of fonts just sitting lower by a millimetre or two. Obviously, in long documents, this has a knock on effect and destroys the layout. Would have thought it would be an easy fix for an 8.11 update?

Thanks for your reply Alexis and for getting back onto me. Did you give Quark support a call direct ? I might do that... so if I get any info...?? For me it's moving the layout quiet a bit.... so much that I have to fix up alot of my existing documents when I open them.... it only seems to effect pre-Snow Leopard documents.... all new documents I have made since the update open and hold fine. But for legacy work.... re-print work.... I have to feel confident that the files are correct as they were approved back when they were finalised.... that's basic stuff I gotta be able to do and trust. I just hope either Quark or Apple find a fix first... cause my business will keep on being effected if this issue isn't sorted very quickly. Regards, Anthony

After a day of PAIN I've finally figured a way of sorting this problem out WITHOUT having to revert back to 10.5.8 (however it is a bit of a pain and requires a version of Quark 7 as well). In Quark 7, export as a version 6 project. Open the version 6 project in Quark 7. The font issue is resolved and your text looks fine again. However, non of your transparencies or drop shadows work! Don't worry about this now. Delete everything that is on the page and save this file (I called mine Quark v6). Now re-open your original Quark 7 project. Copy everything out and paste it into the document from v6. Hey presto! Everything is back to normal and looks like it should. On certain documents you may have to tweak a bit of tracking here or there, but at least the fonts show and the leading is as it should be. Now save this as a new file and away you go. If you happen to have an old Quark file that were made on version 6, you can just copy/paste your version 7 stuff into that file (this is how I found out about this). The pain is that you will have to do this every time you need to access a document from before the upgrade. I would also recommend you use the Quark 6 document for new files as well to avoid any issues when sending artwork to a printer later. Hopefully Quark will release an update which solves this problem permanently for everyone on Snow Leopard!

 The question now is if you use your fix and Quark does actually come out with a patch will it mess up your fixed documents?

 

For those of you thinking of using this to switch to InDesign, I know I am, I did the exact same test as my original post with InDesign CS3 and everything worked fine. This is in fact a QUARK ONLY issue. I'll post the screen captures of InDesign when I get a chance.

 

Oh and in case Quark actually reads this, it's not exceptable to only fix version 8. If a fix for 7 doesn't come out as well I will NEVER use Quark again.

I can see Quark only patching version 8 as Adobe are only releasing 10.6 upgrades for CS4 (we are still running CS3 but have had no issues so far). Only reason we've sticked with Quark is that all of our past work has been Quark based.

I've opened up documents that I have saved using the method I've mentioned on my colleagues Mac which is still running 10.5.8 and there has been no issues with the files between the two operating systems. I've decided against upgrading any of the other machines until after this issue has been resolved though.

You'd of thought that seeing this fix uses a document saved from v6, that any patch Quark comes out with shouldn't affect them. In any case, this is just a temporary solution to keep me working now (otherwise I will have to spend hours backing up, erasing and reinstalling).