Quark Forums

Shiver me timbers! Thanks max.peter.

Have a great day!

Harty

 Same to you, Harty.

 

Hope I'll read again your interesting remarks.

 

Max

MeHarty:

  Excellent discovery - Content tool plus 'Shift' will now select multiple items (i.e. no need to hold Command key as well any more).

 

Do you have only one content tool in OSX? In my Windows version of 8, I have both a text and a picture content tool. If the former is selected, none of the selection methods discussed here work. As far as I can tell, there is no way to select more than one item. But if the text tool is selected then, indeed, shift-clicking works. This doesn't really help if I'm working with a bunch of images unless I happen to want the text box in the group as well. I suppose I could click the text box, shift click the images, then shift click the text box again to de-select it...but come on!

Fortunately, since I use a left-hand mouse, I can reach the shift key with leaving the mouse and hit F8 with my right hand. -- JK

Correction: meant to type "without leaving the mouse" in that last sentence...

Hi Jim,

Yes, the Mac version also has both text and picture content tools.
Selection behavior appears consistent regardless of which content tool is in use.

The Shift-F8 issue doesn't resolve any of the selection shortcomings that I outlined above
(although, on reflection, I should probably have written my observations to a separate
thread, even though the current thread seemed to have evolved in that direction).

Going back to the opening topic though, another reason why Shift-F8 isn't always helpful, apart
from left- versus right-handed issues, is that for those of us using Apple's latest keyboards, or
even MacBooks, one also has to depress the 'Function' key to activate the functions of the F-keys
(many of these keys are assigned to system-level operations by default).

If it helps, one can also switch tools (on Mac at least) at any time, by typing:
v  to select the Item tool;
t  to select the text content tool; and
r  to select the picture content tool.
    (hit 'esc' first if working in text).

Whilst it would be a nice luxury for Quark to include a built-in suite of customizable keyboard shortcuts,
I actually think there is far greater need for Quark to address the selection shortcomings noted
earlier, in order to overcome the last foibles of 8's new toolbox and return maximum productivity
to the user. 

Mon grain de sel ...

Hi all,

yes, when I say "content tool" I mean any content tool (picture or text). I don't see them beign so different, as QuarkXPress switches them intelligently (e.g. when selecting a text box with the picture content tool, automatically the picture content tool is selected).

Hi MeHarty,

yes, you are right, you cannot multiple select objects that are in a group. You can select one. If you select more than one, the group is selected. That has been the same since QuarkXPress 3.1 (or even earlier). And three of your points are due to this behaviour.

MeHarty:

3.  No keyboard override when content tool preferences set to 'dragging = select boxes'

True. That's why I recommend setting the preference the other way, as then you can marquee drag and create boxes.

Thanks
Matthias

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

Hi all,

yes, when I say "content tool" I mean any content tool (picture or text). I don't see them beign so different, as QuarkXPress switches them intelligently (e.g. when selecting a text box with the picture content tool, automatically the picture content tool is selected).

Hi Matthias. Not quite true. I can have the pen tool selected, draw a shape, then hold down CMD and select a text box I wish to type in to or a picture box I wish to fill. XPress does NOT automatically switch to the content tool. I have to go back to the tool palette or hit the proper key to get the proper tool. This behavior functions the way you describe it if I am merely switching back and forth between text and image boxes however (but not all the time).

As to an earlier mention of me always being in the Item tool, that's not entirely true either. It was definitely not true with XPress 7.x and before, but now I find myself having to switch to the Item tool much more because the way I used to work before does not work the same way anymore.

Incidentally, according to Dan, the ESCAPE key can be used when any content tool is being used and a box is selected to enable you to switch via keyboard command to a different tool.

eyoungren:

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

Hi all,

yes, when I say "content tool" I mean any content tool (picture or text). I don't see them beign so different, as QuarkXPress switches them intelligently (e.g. when selecting a text box with the picture content tool, automatically the picture content tool is selected).

Hi Matthias. Not quite true...

I guess that depends on whether you consider the pen tool a content tool. In the context of Matthias' comment, it probably doesn't qualify as such (a closed path drawn with the pen tool has a default item content of 'none', i.e. it's neither a text nor picture container...).

 

Hi Erik,

eyoungren:

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

yes, when I say "content tool" I mean any content tool (picture or text). I don't see them beign so different, as QuarkXPress switches them intelligently (e.g. when selecting a text box with the picture content tool, automatically the picture content tool is selected).

Not quite true. I can have the pen tool selected, draw a shape, then hold down CMD and select a text box I wish to type in to or a picture box I wish to fill. XPress does NOT automatically switch to the content tool.

I think we are talkign about different things. First, yes, I don't see the pen tool as a conent tool (it creates items such as boxes and lines). And when you select the Command+Key you are basically temporarily in Item tool. 

I see your point of wanting to select a box after drawing, please put a wish into the Suggestion Box.

And, yes, Escape deselects a selected box (like TAB does since QuarkXPress 3). Escape was necessary to add, as single key shortcuts (Photoshop like) work great when not working in text boxes. Therefore I do not like Space as the hand/mover tool, as in text boxes you can really mess things up (Command+Space might be an option long term).

Thanks
Matthias

Agreed. The pen tool is not a content tool.

BUT!

I should not have to go back to the tool palette to select the text content tool if I leave a bezier shape and CMD+click to select a text box/picture box.

In XPress 7.x and below I could select a shape with the content tool. Using modifier keys I could modify the shape. I could pan! I could then select a text box or a picture box and because my content tool was still the tool selected I could enter text or images.

NOW. To edit a bezier shape I have to 1. select the pen too, 2. edit the shape with modifier keys, 3. CMD+click to select the text box or image box I want AND THEN PRESS T OR R or click on the tool in the palette to enter content! Also note that if you draw a NONE box, change the content to text or image and then double+click it to enter text or an image I GET NOTHING! I have to go back to the tool palette to select either the text or picture content tool or use the keyboard shortcuts for it.

I'm sorry. I like XPress, but this whole mess is just driving me insane.

EDIT: Just to clarify this somewhat. Here is what I am saying in regards to the content tools. Before version 8.x I could click on an item and if it was text or image just put content in. Now, I can select an item and then I have to select the proper content tool before I can put anything in it. It's an extra step and I do not see that as an improvement. 

Hi Erik,

eyoungren:

Just to clarify this somewhat. Here is what I am saying in regards to the content tools. Before version 8.x I could click on an item and if it was text or image just put content in. Now, I can select an item and then I have to select the proper content tool before I can put anything in it. It's an extra step and I do not see that as an improvement. 

Can you please send me a screenmovie (via email)? 

For me it works what I think you are describing/desiring, maybe I am just understanding it wrong.

Thanks
Matthias

 Sure. Give me a day or so.

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

yes, you are right, you cannot multiple select objects that are in a group. You can select one. If you select more than one, the group is selected. That has been the same since QuarkXPress 3.1 (or even earlier). And three of your points are due to this behaviour.

Correct, but therefore, why hasn't this yet been addressed?
These basic features have been commonplace in so many other applications for just as long.

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

MeHarty:

3.  No keyboard override when content tool preferences set to 'dragging = select boxes'

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

True. That's why I recommend setting the preference the other way, as then you can marquee drag and create boxes.

But if that's the recommendation, there's little point in having the preference; any preference which reverses the behavior of a tool needs a keyboard modifier to temporarily reverse the behavior back again. Surely it would make sense to be able to both marquee-drag and create boxes with a content tool when preferences are set to 'dragging = select boxes'. Similarly, when these preferences are set to 'create boxes', a keyboard modifier to enable dragging to select would be equally indispensable.

My wish-list towards a most productive toolbox in QXP8 would therefore be to add the following obvious requirements:

1. The ability to make multiple sub-selections within groups, regardless of the tool in use (obviously using keyboard modifiers, see 3 below).

2. A keyboard modifier to temporarily reverse the behaviour of the content tool preferences when set to 'dragging = select boxes', e.g. option-drag creates a box.

3. Better integration of the option and shift keys, as in other publishing applications, possible examples being:
-  option-click and option-drag with the Item tool to subselect within a goup;
-  option-shift-click and option-shift-drag with the Item tool to add to a subselection within a group;
-  command-option-click with a content tool to sub-select an item within a group.
-  command-option-shift-click with a content tool to add to a sub-selection within a group.

4. Either move the Hand tool to the 'space bar' for compatibility with other publishing apps, or choose another key combination, e.g. ‘Command-Option’, to allow the Option key to be used for more productive functions.

Job done. Now I'd better go and think about something else...

Cheers everybody!

Dont get too excited: Its "v"/"r" for box/content. But if you are in a textbox, this wont help you. We have 8.1.6 and I still use PullTab + a tool called Spark, wich does alot, but I use simply "if I press command+tab, then do press shift+F8". So much fiddeling around…if Quark would make the stretchy Shift+F8 mess changeable, we could all be happy. Customizable shortcuts, where?