Sofa Threads

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Jim Haggarty — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:34:56 GMT

Hi Michel,

Jim Haggarty:
Our Canadian customers and partners are extremely important to Quark. I have forwarded your valid comment about sessions in Canada to our QXP Product Marketing & Communications teams for a response and will follow-up.

Michel Lemieux:
Glad the hear that. I would have loved to exercise my "stronger" dollar on my southern neihbor's territory but the lack of advance notice prevented it. Not to mention that I would be hard pressed in justifying the expense...

I have been informed by our Marketing Team that Montreal and a couple of other North American cities have been added to the Quark 8 Global tour. Dates will be forthcoming. Thanks for your input.

The initial tour stops in New York, Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles,etc. have been very well received.

Jim

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

almaink — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:42:00 GMT

"Why can't you guys wait for the product rather than dismissing it out of hand? " Well Quark's again releasing a version that still doesn't support direct export to PDF, without flattening the transparency. At the very least, this version should have some method of flattening transparency that works, and doesn't result in hours of prepress work to output the file.

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

geo — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:30:42 GMT

YES, I will be the first to praise quark when/if they finally get things going correctly. I have recommended quark (since 3.x) to any/all of my colleagues for many, many years. And, as in previous versions, it does not need to be perfect. I've/we've always found areas where it could be better. Always room for improvement. And we worked hand in hand with quark in adjusting and tweaking to help them get it right, all for the benefit of us, the end user.

Right now there is SO much that really needs tweaking that I've felt that they need to put their full attention into getting it right, now. It is a major irk to many of us that they don't seem to see that. And I am worried with the impending release of version 8. It almost looks like a cosmetic upgrade. Fun. Exciting. New interface, etc. What about what does not work? I don't believe they have addressed and fixed many/any of the MAJOR issues regarding transparency that need to be delt with.

There, you see, you got me going again!

I am passionate about quark, even to the point where I feel like family. And to tell you the truth, if I had a family member going down the wrong path I would take them to the woodshed also!

Now with that said, I will, in the future, try to tone down some of the "issue complaints", and get back to trying to help other users "use" what we have been given. For that, I say, thank you for calling me out.

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

britsmith — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:55:13 GMT

Your cynicism, based on experience, may be well founded, but it's relentless and discouraging. Will you guys be as relentless in your praise of Quark if, this time, they get it right, and everything works perfectly? I reckon at best they can hope for silence, because when things go well software writers and vendors don't hear from their end users, and their sales figures tend to speak for themselves. But at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

geo — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:51:40 GMT

britsmith:
Why can't you guys wait for the product rather than dismissing it out of hand?

Britsmith, no offense, but that is what we did with 7.x. We are still waiting for that version to work properly. I know there are workarounds for most issues. But having to re-build an entire collage because the transparency does not interact correctly with transparency is foolish, and very time intensive. Quark, as it is now functions great for layouts. Just don't collage many items and expect good results on press. It WON'T happen.

My (and others) cynicism is spot on. Until quark lays out what is fixed, and what has no chance of being fixed in the v8 product cycle, quark better not expect a lot of customers to anti up $$$$$ again!

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

britsmith — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:47:04 GMT

Good news, thanks. I'm really looking forward to trying it. It'll be great if it turns out to be a winner, as there's so much cynicism on the forum nowadays. Why can't you guys wait for the product rather than dismissing it out of hand? I've been saddened by the amount of prejudice here.

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Marc Horne (Quark) — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:20:56 GMT

We will indeed be releasing a demo version with all functionality enabled. We'll drop a note here on the forums when that goes up on our site.

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

britsmith — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:14:24 GMT

I haven't had the time to read ALL of this, but have got the drift.

However, without going through all of the posts, I haven't yet established whether Quark is planning to release a demo version of Quark 8. Only then will I be able to make up my mind about it, and would appreciate that opportunity, especially as I was recently quoted 299 UK pounds for the upgrade, which is not a small amount for someone who is self-employed.

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Scripting_Ace — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:30:23 GMT

Jim Haggarty:
Hi Michel,

Hi Jim,

Let me start by saying how refreshing it is that you take the time answer me directly. And now being able to put a face top the name makes it even better. This should even be a policy for all you employees that have accounts in these forums.

Jim Haggarty:
Not the case. All activities are well planned and in the case of the Knowledge base referring to V7.4, this is an innocent human error or an anxious employee who has worked with the pre-release version of 7.4. Our Knowledge base is updated by numerous persons from our global support teams, who are diligent in their efforts to provide as much information as possible. In the past, we did not have a Knowledge base, yet are now criticized for an innocent error in the current base. We are continuously striving to meet the Customer needs and will introduce additional self help tools in the future.

I do not dipsute the fact that Quark has a plan here, I just wouldn't go as far as stating that it is "well planned". I only stated one small example by mentioning the v7.4 thing. I could have gone with a more exhaustive list (and I will if you want me to) but this would have simply skewed the debate by branching this discussion into different directions rather that seeing the "situation" as a whole. I know quite well that hickups can occur even with the best laid plan. I just think that the "size" of some of your "hickups" gives me pause as to the "qaulity" ofthe planning stage. Mind you we are left in the dark on many issues, not that you owe us to divulge everthing you are doing, so surely those missing bits of information prevent me from seeing the whole picture. This comes down to: We can only judge what we see of the proverbial "tip of the iceberg".

Jim Haggarty:
Our Canadian customers and partners are extremely important to Quark. I have forwarded your valid comment about sessions in Canada to our QXP Product Marketing & Communications teams for a response and will follow-up.

Glad the hear that. I would have loved to exercise my "stronger" dollar on my southern neihbor's territory but the lack of advance notice prevented it. Not to mention that I would be hard pressed in justifying the expense...

Jim Haggarty:
I agree Quark had a great reputation early on and slowly lost Customer focus as well as product quality. The new Management team has spent the last 1 1/2 years "putting ourselves in your shoes" to determine the issues and the remedies. As you can determine with Version 7, a number of maintenance/feature/performance releases were scheduled in 2007/2008 to bring the level of quality up to acceptable standards. With Version 8, we have been extremely diligent in our internal testing, have used over 400 independent testers, benchmarked performance, etc.. which were neglected in prior releases. Internally, our R&D and QXP Product Management believe this is the best release in Quark's history.
Version 8 is being delivered 24 months after Version 7. You can expect 18-24 month lags between releases for major versions of Quark software going forward. Our intermediate releases will include bug corrections as well as significant features which will be available to all persons on the current release.
We are very serious regarding our strategies,plans and focus. Products will NOT be rushed to market for revenue purposes. Quark is making solid measured progress on all fronts and I expect within the coming months all of your major concerns will be remedied.

Sorry, I really don't buy into all of this... Yes v8 will come out 24 months after v7 but since v7 got the "workable" status only with the 7.31 update, it has been really 8 months in our point of vue. The first 16 months of v7 was the "Paying Beta" program I was talking about. In essence, most of us have just started using v7 and already we hear of v8 (not to mention v9 and v10 that you mentioned earlier). I am sure that this 16 months could have been reduced to a much smaller time frame had your resources been kept on the v7 project rather than moved to the v8 one. That, in my mind, is "rushing to market for revenue purposes".

Jim Haggarty:
Stay tuned and thanks for your support.
Jim

Thank you, I will

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Jim Haggarty — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:29:05 GMT

Hi Michel,

Scripting_Ace:
I believe this to be the problem in a nutshell. Seems to me Quark is running to catch to many chikens at once. This often results in catching very few if at all. I realise that Quark is not a 20 persons shop and you have to delegate tasks if you want to have them carried away but this does not mean the departments cannot speak to one another. I mean if a tech support employee write in the Knowledge Base that we should update our Quark to 7.4 in order to fix a given problem, he/she should at least make sure that such update exists. It all comes down to communication.

Not the case. All activities are well planned and in the case of the Knowledge base referring to V7.4, this is an innocent human error or an anxious employee who has worked with the pre-release version of 7.4. Our Knowledge base is updated by numerous persons from our global support teams, who are diligent in their efforts to provide as much information as possible. In the past, we did not have a Knowledge base, yet are now criticized for an innocent error in the current base. We are continuously striving to meet the Customer needs and will introduce additional self help tools in the future.

Scripting_Ace:
would love to see that but apparently Canada does not figure in your Global perspective... Is our dollar too strong?

Our Canadian customers and partners are extremely important to Quark. I have forwarded your valid comment about sessions in Canada to our QXP Product Marketing & Communications teams for a response and will follow-up.

Scripting_Ace:
Shall I mention the chickens again? When I first started working on Quark (circa v3.31), Quark was rolling out upgrades at a much slower rate ( an update every 2 to 4 years), back the the application VERY stable and did "mostly' what we wanted/needed. If a feature was missing we had a slew of 3rd party XTensions to choose from. At the same time there were virtually no competition for you guys. So it cost us an arm and a leg to get the software but once it got installed we knew it would do the job.
More recently, another fish has entered the pond and this has obviously frazzled Quark. This new "fish" came out with a dismal attempt at your market but also came out with upgrades at 12-18 months interval and at a fraction of the price. In the mean, Quark was doing its best imitation of a dear in the headlights. The effect of all this is that you have to play catch up ball to regain your market share.
Short story, you went from one extreme to another... could we find a middle ground here? Could we wait for a version to be stable prior to think about working on a new one? I have no interest whatsoever in joining a Beta program that I have to pay to get in and this is what new upgrades of Quark look like lately. Diverting your resources like this dilutes the end product and while this DOES put more money in your pocket now, I do not think this is a sound long term investment.
Don't get me wrong, I may sound harsh and bitter in my remarks but I do have Quark at heart. As I told Matthias, the only thing we can go on is perception. This "perception" is a direct result each of your endeavours (applications, websites, these forums, etc.): The product is rushed, planification is bad and communication is worst. Please put yourself in our shoes for 5 minutes and tell me how it looks.

I agree Quark had a great reputation early on and slowly lost Customer focus as well as product quality. The new Management team has spent the last 1 1/2 years "putting ourselves in your shoes" to determine the issues and the remedies. As you can determine with Version 7, a number of maintenance/feature/performance releases were scheduled in 2007/2008 to bring the level of quality up to acceptable standards. With Version 8, we have been extremely diligent in our internal testing, have used over 400 independent testers, benchmarked performance, etc.. which were neglected in prior releases. Internally, our R&D and QXP Product Management believe this is the best release in Quark's history.

Version 8 is being delivered 24 months after Version 7. You can expect 18-24 month lags between releases for major versions of Quark software going forward. Our intermediate releases will include bug corrections as well as significant features which will be available to all persons on the current release.

We are very serious regarding our strategies,plans and focus. Products will NOT be rushed to market for revenue purposes. Quark is making solid measured progress on all fronts and I expect within the coming months all of your major concerns will be remedied.

Stay tuned and thanks for your support.

Jim

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Scripting_Ace — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 04:52:20 GMT

Jim Haggarty:
Bonjour Scripting Ace,

Hi Jim and thank you for taking the time to answer me personally.

My comments must have struck a nerve as I see that a couple of my points have already been adressed...

Jim Haggarty:
Quark is moving very quickly on a number of initiatives, ...

I believe this to be the problem in a nutshell. Seems to me Quark is running to catch to many chikens at once. This often results in catching very few if at all. I realise that Quark is not a 20 persons shop and you have to delegate tasks if you want to have them carried away but this does not mean the departments cannot speak to one another. I mean if a tech support employee write in the Knowledge Base that we should update our Quark to 7.4 in order to fix a given problem, he/she should at least make sure that such update exists. It all comes down to communication.

Jim Haggarty:
All of our products, Enterprise and Desktop require core Quark XPress technologies, and our support and dedication to desktop publishing should be evident with our 58 city Global QXP V8 tour starting next week in New York running through through October.

I would love to see that but apparently Canada does not figure in your Global perspective... Is our dollar too strong?

Jim Haggarty:
We are currently developing V9 and planning sessions have been initiated for V10, as well as updates for V7.

Shall I mention the chickens again? When I first started working on Quark (circa v3.31), Quark was rolling out upgrades at a much slower rate ( an update every 2 to 4 years), back the the application VERY stable and did "mostly' what we wanted/needed. If a feature was missing we had a slew of 3rd party XTensions to choose from. At the same time there were virtually no competition for you guys. So it cost us an arm and a leg to get the software but once it got installed we knew it would do the job.

More recently, another fish has entered the pond and this has obviously frazzled Quark. This new "fish" came out with a dismal attempt at your market but also came out with upgrades at 12-18 months interval and at a fraction of the price. In the mean, Quark was doing its best imitation of a dear in the headlights. The effect of all this is that you have to play catch up ball to regain your market share.

Short story, you went from one extreme to another... could we find a middle ground here? Could we wait for a version to be stable prior to think about working on a new one? I have no interest whatsoever in joining a Beta program that I have to pay to get in and this is what new upgrades of Quark look like lately. Diverting your resources like this dilutes the end product and while this DOES put more money in your pocket now, I do not think this is a sound long term investment.

Don't get me wrong, I may sound harsh and bitter in my remarks but I do have Quark at heart. As I told Matthias, the only thing we can go on is perception. This "perception" is a direct result each of your endeavours (applications, websites, these forums, etc.): The product is rushed, planification is bad and communication is worst. Please put yourself in our shoes for 5 minutes and tell me how it looks.

Regards,

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Jim Haggarty — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:00:51 GMT

Bonjour Scripting Ace,

Quark is moving very quickly on a number of initiatives, including our website. In the past few months, we have introduced Enterprise and Desktop Knowledge databases; provided a Self Service Portal where you can log and track your support cases; developed a new user Forum; migrated our Enterprise website to a .Net environment; introduced a new QXP 8 website and will be migrating the balance of our "old" website in the immediate future. We have also introduced the same technologies for our other language web sites. A link to Desktop Products can be found in the Solutions Section for Enterprise Products, as in the Desktop Products a link to the Dynamic Publishing products. Once we completely migrate our web site, the single www.quark.com URL will be in use.

All of our products, Enterprise and Desktop require core Quark XPress technologies, and our support and dedication to desktop publishing should be evident with our 58 city Global QXP V8 tour starting next week in New York running through through October. We are currently developing V9 and planning sessions have been initiated for V10, as well as updates for V7.

We have additional exciting product, customer and partnership news which will be announced in the coming months.

Quark is focused on Desktop Publishing as well as the Enterprise. Dynamic Publishing is an extension of all Quark products plus additional new technologies, i.e. native XML,DITA/PRISM support, Word to Structured XML, CMS connectivity, etc.

Regards, Jim

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Scripting_Ace — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:14:21 GMT

Hi again Matthias and thank you for that.

Now can you tell me where I can find theupdate to 7.4 as mentionned here

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Matthias Guenther (Quark) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:06:30 GMT

Hi, Scripting Ace,

unfortunately when switching web site and forum technologies, there are always things to improve. However, that's not where the rumour came from, right? All of it seem to point to a certain source. Whether it is a credible source is a different topic.

However, I get what you are saying, once somebody heard something it is within the human nature to fill in voids with indicators for one or the other. Point taken.

I'll see what I can change. So once we change that, you'll be happy?

Have a great weekend!
Matthias

Re: Quark 8 BETTER be free to 7.x owners

Glenn McDowall — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:05:05 GMT

Graham PM (Quark):
bondulous

only gets me 3 hits in google one of which is yours and another is referring to Bond films, Sounds Australian to me have you been on yer hols?

Anyway why not discuss cool future things on this forum, you might actually gat a bit of useful feedback.