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PDFX1a

Last post 03-10-2008 4:03 PM by eyoungren. 18 replies.
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  • 01-08-2008 7:09 PM

    PDFX1a

    Anyone know how I can get this out of an XPress 6.52 EPS file?

    Here is my issue. We build our ads in XPress, then we save out an EPS file. That EPS file will be placed in our newspaper document and merged with editorial. But, our ads reps usually want a PDF proof to send to our clients. It's our practice to simply grab the EPS file and dump it into a watched folder. Since we already have an EPS, that's simpler then printing to PS to get a PDF.

    The error I keep getting from Distiller is in regards to trapping. Specifically the following error:

    1. Trapping

    [Violation] A value of Unknown for the Trapped key is prohibited.

    Now, our files are set in XPress to "Knockout All," but I am unsure if changing this will remove the error.

    Is there something I need to do, or am I just stuck with this?
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 01-09-2008 6:11 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    OK, I've managed to figure this out. It's the settings inside Distiller. Unfortunately, I have to set a color space on the PDFx1a tab. I read somewhere that the Photoshop 4 CMYK defaults do not retain color profiles so this is what I selected.

    We are not using any color management and I want to keep it that way. Can anyone tell me if this is a good setting or not?
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 01-15-2008 3:16 PM In reply to

    • ReneG
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 06-02-2004
    • Toronto, Canada
    • Posts 337

    PDFX1a

    My question is: why would you want to send a PDFx1a you your client?

    If they want a high res pdf, why not sending let's say a 200 or 300 dpi pdf where you select the settings yourself – maybe that would handle the Trapping error.

    No?
    René
  • 01-20-2008 11:53 AM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Hi Erik,

    the PDF/X Trapping key signals to an automated workflow system whether your PDF file has to be trapped or is already trapped. If has to be set to a defined value (true or false) and it's set in the PDF/X creation application (in your case inside Acrobat Distiller).
    As QuarkXPress isn't able to trap during composite output you always have to set this key to false (not trapped).

    The color space you're referring to is the output intent profile of a PDF/X-1a file (also applies to all other PDF/X versions).

    To be able to recognize in what CMYK color space you've created your layout/PDF, you have to either embed the appropriate ICC profile of that color space or you have to select a standardized printing condition from a list of predefined conditions managed a http://www.color.org.
    using the PDF/X output intent for this is much more "secure" than using device independent color in your PDF file via ICCBased color space(s) as the later bears the danger of unwanted color transformation during final output.
  • 01-21-2008 5:00 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Thanks Robert.

    ReneG, I don't really have an answer to your question, other than to say that it's not something we are concerned about. Being a small newspaper we tend to receive PDFs from clients that are just junk. Usually it's the PDF proof that the client was sent from the OTHER newspapers they run in. Usually they want US to repurpose it. I know of at least one of our clients who turns around and sends OUR proofs to the local daily which has a large circulation (statewide). So, I'd rather have a good PDF from us (knowing how I have to deal with the bad ones we get) out there. Secondly, our Ad Manager refuses to do anything more with computers/files than she is absolutely directed to do. The moment I send a low res proof out she is going to be back here whining to me about how the customer complained that the proof was bad quality. And no matter of explanation will make her leave until I send a "good" PDF.

    Finally, it's an extra step. There's only two of us back here in Composing.
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 01-21-2008 5:47 PM In reply to

    • ReneG
    • Top 50 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 06-02-2004
    • Toronto, Canada
    • Posts 337

    PDFX1a

    eyoungren:

    I know of at least one of our clients who turns around and sends OUR proofs to the local daily which has a large circulation (statewide). So, I'd rather have a good PDF from us (knowing how I have to deal with the bad ones we get) out there.


    Oh, I see now.

    Better be safe than sorry.

    :-)
    René
  • 01-21-2008 7:55 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Precisely. Being the reciever of too many badly made PDFs, I don't care to add to the pile out there.... :wink:
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 02-01-2008 11:16 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    rzacherl:
    The color space you're referring to is the output intent profile of a PDF/X-1a file (also applies to all other PDF/X versions).

    To be able to recognize in what CMYK color space you've created your layout/PDF, you have to either embed the appropriate ICC profile of that color space or you have to select a standardized printing condition from a list of predefined conditions managed a http://www.color.org.
    using the PDF/X output intent for this is much more "secure" than using device independent color in your PDF file via ICCBased color space(s) as the later bears the danger of unwanted color transformation during final output.


    Robert, can you make this easy for me and simply tell me yes or no to the following question. If I select a output intent profile in Distiller (as I seem to have to to be X1a compliant) is this output intent profile actually being embedded into my PDF? We aren't using color profiles (I have it all shut off for a reason) and I don't want to embed color profiles in to my PDFs.
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 02-21-2008 5:15 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Hi Erik

    which version of Distiller are you using?

    As I understand it, the "Output Intent Profile Name" shouldn't mess up color management downstream unless someone chooses to print from Acrobat and specifically uses it in a deliberate profile to profile conversion.

    I'm not sure if the profile is actually embedded or just referenced as a URL.

    One potential problem is that you can choose to color manage cmyk to cmyk in Distiller during pdf creation. It's just that the options are a bit clearer with v7 and v8 compared to v6.

    Sorry I can't be as cast iron positive as Robert would be about this Big Smile

    Surely as a newsprint type quality, wouldn't a correct PDFX output intent look terrible on screen for your clients?
    ... there was the puzzle of why the sun came out during the day, instead of at night when the light would come in useful.
    Terry Pratchet
  • 02-21-2008 5:28 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Glenn McDowall:
    Surely as a newsprint type quality, wouldn't a correct PDFX output intent look terrible on screen for your clients?


    I have to answer with, "that depends." Most of our clients are about as proficient/knowldgeable with their computers as a baby would be. If it looks terrible they never seem to question it!

    Thanks for responding Glenn. We are using Acrobat 6.0 Professional Distiller. And we have the color management settings off (No color management). That's why I was questioning this. I don't really care if it get's embedded for our proofs that go out (because they are proofs), but we are also using the same settings to distill our completed color newspaper pages. We then print seps from Acrobat with these PDFs and I don't want an embedded profile messing with things or causing any kind of shifting during distilling.

    So far I don't think that's happening though, as nothing seems to be amiss at the moment.
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 02-21-2008 5:53 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Distiller 6 Color tab set to Color Management Off and PDFX1a
    so what happens if you accidentally send an rgb image, does it error?

    Distiller 7 & 8 out of the box settings for PDF/X-1a:2001 are set to Convert All Colors to CMYK
    with a Working Space
    CMYK profile of U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2
    but with an extra checkbox
    (checked) Preserve CMYK values for calibrated CMYK color spaces

    I can't see that this is any use if you intend to have a spot colour in your PDFX file. But you can see that you now have the option to let Distiller deal with rgb and/or also color manage cmyk to cmyk.
    ... there was the puzzle of why the sun came out during the day, instead of at night when the light would come in useful.
    Terry Pratchet
  • 02-21-2008 6:55 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Glenn. Acro6 Distiller does indeed error on RGB images. However, that is exactly what I want to happen for our workflow. I'm trying to eliminate RGB images from the workflow to begin with. I prefer to convert any RGB I find manually. We usually check this and fix it whenever we get files from a customer.

    Objectively this means that by the time we are merging Editorial with Advertising, any RGB color I am going to get it going to come from the Editorial side. That can be fixed easily.

    All the way around I prefer to eliminate RGB from the beginning. We have had in the past, RGB printed as CMYK seps and it went to press. With the quality of our press and the struggles of the stripper/camera person it came out looking pretty bad.

    As to spot color, what we usually do is build our ads that use spot as a solid process color (usually Cyan). We then print the Cyan and Black plate and the pressmen use the Cyan plate for the Spot plate. We also ask our customers to do this and most comply.
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 02-21-2008 9:07 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    OK so its good that Distiller 6 errors with rgb and your PDFX1a settings.

    Adding an Output Intent Profile Name to achieve PDFX1a really shouldn't affect your Device Dependant workflow.

    On the other hand not Adding an Output Intent Profile Name and would produce the same results for your workflow, just without the PDFX stamp. :roll:
    ... there was the puzzle of why the sun came out during the day, instead of at night when the light would come in useful.
    Terry Pratchet
  • 02-21-2008 9:40 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    Unh-hunh. :wink:

    I can't get a PDFX1a without the Output Intent Profile set. If fails. RGB causes a failure (which I want anyway). I COULD set it to generate anyway, but then I wouldn't have a compliant PDF.

    Incidentally, Spot colors (actual PMS colors) come through as well. Which is fine for us as I understand that the spec I am using is for CMYK/Spot. Sometimes when we only have one spot color ad we'll just use that spot color and not process it to the Cyan plate.

    In any case, that still goes back to my original question. Even though my main settings are set not to color manage, the PDFX1a Output Intent Profile has to be set so that you get a compliant file. So am I embedding a profile even though I'm not wanting one and my other settings specify none? That's what I'm getting at here. Kinda loopy huh?
    Erik Youngren | Mac Pro 2.8Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon | InDesign CS4 | Suitcase Fusion 5
    erik@quarktronic.com
    Quark Forums member since 2001
  • 02-21-2008 10:09 PM In reply to

    PDFX1a

    The key word is Intent.

    The Output Intent profile is just meant to act as a check that you are about to output to the same device as the PDF author INTENDED.

    I'm guessing that if it doesn't match your device you are probably meant to reject it.... but in the real world....
    ... there was the puzzle of why the sun came out during the day, instead of at night when the light would come in useful.
    Terry Pratchet
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