Quark Forums

I am sure more will come and feel to ask for precision on any points listed above.

Hope this helps!

Funny we can't seem to be able to edit our posts over here...


In any case, add this to my list:

• I want to be able to set a background color in my character style sheet to "fake" higlighted text.
• I want footnotes

Hi, Michel,

very valuable and valid requests, let's see what we can do in the next versions, we all love to read these kind of suggestions and our Technical Product Managers track these kind of requests carefully.

For two of your requests I have created some tips & tricks in the specific forum, as they are already doable in version 6 or 7, let me know if you find them appropriate ways to work:
[quote user=76902 , is that what you want?

[quote user=18468 , is that what you want?

A few I do not understand:
[quote:a992c5660e]- I want to be able to set certain paragraphs as multi-columns text.
- I want to have paragraph styles to FOLLOW runarounds made by picture boxes placed on the left side of the text box.

I want someone to do all this lousy work for me whilst I still get paid ... double ... no wait, triple ... what I get now.

Seriously though I wonder if the two items you query, Matthias, are this:

To be able to have a multi-column within a column. Thus a single column, at one point, becomes a double column, then goes back to being a single column all within the same text box. I know what you're going to say though - tables!

The other one is to have para-indents and tabbing work correctly on the right hand side of a picture box with runaround set. If I have, say, 4mm indents on the left of a text box, but then push a picture box with runaround in to it the indenting falls apart. I'd like said indenting to move with the rest of the text. So instead of having to reset the indent manually, it just moves.

To further explain that one - say I've got text indented by 4mm, and a runaround box overlapping the left of that text column by 7mm I'd like the indent to automatically go to 11mm and not, basically, disappear as it does now!

At least that's what I think Michel meant by those two.

Greg

Hi, Greg,

thing:

To be able to have a multi-column within a column. [...] I know what you're going to say though - tables!

Good idea! ;-)

Seriously, tables are not good for everything, unless using a baseline grid I would find the leading adjustments quite time-consuming. But doable with tables, yes.

I see tables as a great design and layout feature and not only for tables.

Have you looked at my tips & tricks with tables? Anything you would ever use (Hey, I need real world feedback please, beside my layout work for us internally, it is quite some years since I have worked as a layout artist... <feeling old> :roll: )?

[quote:cf345dd672]The other one is to have para-indents and tabbing work correctly on the right hand side of a picture box with runaround set.

Not to hijack this thread - but briefly I'd simply not used tables until recently. Even with many, many years Quark use (and others PM, ID) I just never touched tables for one reason or another. Recently though I figured it was about time and I'm glad I did - I can see how useful they can be. But sorry, IDs tables are just easier and quicker to use.

One really quick and neat feature of ID's tables is the way the rules bit (from modify/grid as you mentioned in a different thread) is in the tool palette at the base of the screen. It's the work of a second to select, say, the horizontal lines in a set of cells and colour them whereas in Quark doing the same is a lot slower.

I still favour Quark over ID, but tables in ID are, in my experience, easier.

Greg

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

Hi, Michel,
very valuable and valid requests,

Well tahnk you for taking the time to read them!

Matthias Guenther (Quark) also:

...
For two of your requests I have created some tips & tricks in the specific forum, as they are already doable in version 6 or 7, let me know if you find them appropriate ways to work:
[quote user=76902 , is that what you want?

[quote user=18468 , is that what you want?

At first glance it would seem to answer my request, I will have to play with those a bit to make sure.

Matthias Guenther (Quark) also:

A few I do not understand:
[quote user=1:89918d8c6f]

That one I admit is a biggy that would totally reform the way Quark looks at paragraphs. Basically I would prefer that Quark do away with colums define them at the paragraph level. I normally have to put together student text book, It is not uncommon to frist have a question foloowed by a list of possible answers

[code:1:89918d8c6f]What is the color of water?
a) Blue c) Red e) White
b) Green d) Purple f) None of the above[/code:1:89918d8c6f]
Now to lay this one up you either need to set tab stops and reorder the text or super-impose another text box that has a different column setting.
If we could define column setting at the paragraph level it would be a simple matter of applying a style sheet. I know this can be done, it is just a question of are you willing to?

Again, setting text book I have to put numbers of images with runaround and have everthing look good. Now if you put a picture of the right side of a text box, the text runranoud just fine but if you out it on the left and happen to have tabs and indents working on the affected text, the result is not what it should be. The reason being that Quark currently calculate indent tab positions from the "absolute" left side of the text box.
When a runaround is applied, Quark should calculate all text properties FROM the runaround boundary. This would make for a real runaround effect.
I currently have a script that does this for me but it is nonetheless a PIB to manually have to do this. My script is basically looking for overlapping picture box and carved out the area (item-> Merge -Difference) that make up the runaround value, then it adds the respective tab stops for all paragraphs affected by this runaround. My script does not works with rounded shapes so that is where you come in.
In essence, Quark should calculate the position of each Indent and Tab, line by line, base on the location of the left boundary of the text box at the level of that line. That boundary should take any runaround into consideration deeming them as "soft-boundary"

[/list:o:89918d8c6f]

Hopefully that was clear enough, if not I could illustrate the problem if need be

Michel Lemieux
Click here --> to visit my PUBLISHING & SCRIPTING FORUM

The way you described indents next to runaround boxes is exactly what I thought you meant and has always been a bug-bear of mine. Having to reset indents specially to accommodate a runaround box, which may later move resulting in re-calculating the indents, is a pain!

Cheers.

Greg

Just to jump in about the Master Pages. Syncronized Text is fine - it's a nice feature. But truly basing a Master off of a Master would be better in my opinion.

I.e, Master A has all the common elements. Master B uses the elements off of Master A with one item different. When the common elements of Master A are changed they reflect on to Master B, but unless that particular element on Master B is changed, that part stays the same.

Synchronized Text sort of fakes this and I can see where you are going with it, but it's not a true Master based off of a Master.

Hi, Michel,

Scripting_Ace:

Hopefully that was clear enough

Yes, fully understood.

Thanks
Matthias

Hi, Erik,

eyoungren:

Just to jump in about the Master Pages. Syncronized Text is fine - it's a nice feature.

Well, try it in 7, it is not only synchronized text, it is items (boxes).

[quote:199884b5ca]I.e, Master A has all the common elements. Master B uses the elements off of Master A with one item different. When the common elements of Master A are changed they reflect on to Master B, but unless that particular element on Master B is changed, that part stays the same.

Synchronized Text sort of fakes this and I can see where you are going with it, but it's not a true Master based off of a Master.

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

...
Try it with 7. In my opinion you basically have everything you described above.

So when you move an element on master page A, it moves on B. If you want to detach an element on master B, you even have visual indicators to show you it comes from there (the blue handles), just hit the "unsynch this item" and all other master pages remain unaffected, just here you can make a local change.

It is a bit different than the classical master / document page concept but works well, I have tried it in several trainings myself, after some initial "feels unfamiliar" responses most people liked it.

Anyhow, it is "just" a workaround. But a good one I think. With certain advantages over a master-on-master approach.

Hi Matthias,

I must be thick or not doing it right but for me moving a synchronized item on the source Master does not move the same item on the "based on" master. Changing its size does work however. (I did have contents and Attributes synchronized).

I know that this was just a "workaround" but here is what I found clunky with it:
[list=1:ef6e38f5dd]

You cannot synchronize groups of items. In my test document, I had to create 12 separate synchronized items for the left page alone of my "Source" master spread.

To make sense of it all, you have to name every individual items. Now with design elements like color bands and accents, I quickly ran out of meaningful ideas...

You have to drag each indivudual item from the shared contents to the "based on" master and manually put them in them place. That means having to copy each top/left coordinates to place them at the same location (as opposed to Copy/Paste in place).
Mind you, I later realized that you could simply make a copy of the "Source" master and find all items synchronized.

[/list:o:ef6e38f5dd]
Now one of the major point of Master based on Master is that adding/moving items on the PARENT master would replicate on the CHILDS masters. In your workaround, adding an item to the shared content palette also means having to add it to all individual masters. This kinda defeat the purpose of all this.

One does not have to work very long in this field to see autors, editors, technical advisors and their dogs changing their minds (and your work) along the way. While they will simply say they are not changing their mind they are refining it, the end result is still the same. We are stuck with a making them happen. Master based on Master would make for a nice tool towards reaching this goal faster.

All is not lost however as this made me re-think the use of shared contents and I will be able to use some of your tip in my furur projects.

Regrads

Unfortunately, I don't have 7 so I can't test this. And as you Matthias have suggested it is a workaround. Which is fine.

But as Michel's tests seem to indicate this is way more WORK than a simple Parent/Child Master relationship.

Don't get wrong. I totally appreciated a workaround for a feature that XPress does not yet have. I was just trying to make the suggestion (as this is the forum for it) that true Masters based on Masters would be a nice feature to have in later versions of the program.

Michel,

sure, your points are valid. And isn't that the definition of workaround? Around is always longer than straight, right? ;-)

Yes, you cannot synch groups, maybe that should be my suggestion for the future here. Object position is the only restriction I am aware of, which can be solved with Object Styles. Yes, it is getting more "around" now.

Still I am glad my post got you to look at shared elements a bit more, they are powerful. So I hope you found my post at least a bit useful.

Best
Matthias

Ok, since this thread was initiated long ago and was done in the upcoming Quark 8 upgrade, I thought I revisit it to see if any of those point got addressed in the new version (running the demo version at the moment)

I will try to remember everything I suggested as the whole thing disappeared on me when I try to eidt my original post to make it compliant to this new board...

Again this is in no particular order:

1. Style sheets grouping: A better to organize our style sheets.
   
• No. The style sheets palette has been graced with the long awaited "Update style" button but there is no way to group our styles as of yet
  
2. Different page sizes per layout and fold marks:
• No.
3. Master items on different layers: Being able to set master items on their own layer so that we could set them to a specific stack order.
• No. It a shame really, this was such a simple request.
  
4. Selecting color plate for input: Being able to do composite print with ONLY selected colors.
• No. Don't know why there are check mark in the print color dialog if we cannot change their state.
5. Multi-columns text cells: Being able to set columns within text cells.
• No. Again, that was a simple request, text cels should behave as a normal text box does plus be bound to table properties.
  
6. More exaustive style sheets definition: Being able to see EVERYTHING that makes up a style.
• The style information remained the same but the trap setting is no longer part of the style definition (This is what prompted my request) so it would seem that this got done after a fashion.
7. Better style application info: Being able to see what is different about the text when we see a "+" sign before its applied style.
• No. <Sigh>
  
8. Highlighted text feature: Or having the rules definition applied at the character level rather than at the paragrapgh level.
• No.
9. Footnotes: We've been asking for this for ages...
   
• No.
10. Numbered and bulleted list: We've been asking for this for ages...
    
• No.
11. Multi-column paragraph definition: Being able to set column definition at the paragraph level (That was a biggy)
• No.
12. Proper runaround on images placed to the LEFT of the text: Having a TRUE runaround effect where indents and tabs are also offsetted when a runaround is cause on the left side of the text.
• No.
13. Proper vertical justification when a runaround affect the text: Having Quark do a better spacing calculation when the justified text is affected but a runaround.
• No.
14. Master based on master: Having the ability to based master pages on other master pages.
• No.
15. Styles based on multiple styles: Being able to base style on part(s) of other styles combined.
• No. I really like the new "Item Style" and this is pretty much what I envision for defining styles, having checkboxes of every properties allowing us to apply them or not. This added with the ability to select properties from multiple styles.
  
16. Uneven column width specification: Being able to set uneven column guides at the document level and having them mirrored on facing pages layout.
• No.
17. Multiple Text chain: Being able to have multiple story flowing automatically from page to page.
    
• No.
18. Hanging punctuation: Being able to have punctuation extend from the text box without having to use anchored boxes.
• Yes.
19. Make image paths realtive rather than absolute: Being able to copy out folder structure ANYWHERE without having to relink every images as long as the image location remain the same w/r to the location of the quark file.
• No.
20. Improved scriptability: Here is the list I sent to the Applescript development team.
    
• Having Quark recordable -> No
• Better UI scriptability -> No
• Forgiving "Read-Only" properties -> No
• Image updating capability -> No
• Better info on Picture Usage -> No
• better info on Font Usage -> No
• Better info on Color Usage -> No
• Access to Sections definition -> No
• Access to Indexes -> No
• Access to Lists -> No
• Acces to Find/Change -> No
• Access to Collect for Output -> No
• Access to Output Styles -> Limited.. It seems you can now use a saved Output Style but you cannot create them.
  
• Better access to Chained text -> No
• Better access to image's Embeded Path -> No
• Add a Default text box class -> Yes and No ... There is now a "Default text box" class but it cannot be used to target such a box on any given page.
• Being able to import a specific page of a PDF -> Not that I can see

Here are the reasons given for upgrade:

1. Modern, intuitive interface:  Work faster and design more with fewer clicks.
• Very little has changed form the "older" interface. The way I see it is you have created a new skin. It might be more efficient internally but I haven't noticed any differences yet.
  
2. Built-in Web and Flash® authoring tools: Design across media; share high-fidelity print content across the Web and in Flash format without purchasing a separate application or learning code.
• Couldn't care les about this one. An improvement would have been to take the web stuff out alltogether. Actually, that is not correct of me to say. I have no ondication that the web stuff interfered with the PRINT side of the software. Where I do object is when I am presented a set of feature that I never intended to use as "reasons to upgrade"... A very poor overall set at that if I may say so.
3. Designer-driven typography with hanging characters and advanced baseline grids: Easily create stunning text and achieve the effects you want with precise control.
• That is something nice!
  
4. Native Illustrator® file import and new illustration tools: Work in one application and easily create illustrations directly in QuarkXPress.
• I wasn't missing these features in the past.
5. Common Illustrator and Photoshop® keyboard controls: Flip between QuarkXPress, Photoshop, and Illustrator without having to change the way you switch tools or manipulate objects; reduced learning curve.
• I wasn't missing these features in the past.
6. Easy page layout with drag and drop functionality: Easily move text and pictures between QuarkXPress and any applications that support drag and drop.
• I wasn't missing this feature in the past.
7. Items Styles and Item Find/Change: Reduce manual work, increase consistency.
• This I like, I even wished it would have been applied somewhere else (see above). Why did does not include Drop Shadows information is beyond me...
  
8. Output styles suited for PDF workflows, including PDF/X and PDF/X PLUS: Produce predictable, standardized output
• Nice to have, nothing more.
9. International publishing features: Publish globally with dictionaries and hyphenation for more than 30 languages; using a single file format, open and print a project created anywhere in the world with QuarkXPress 8; define high-fidelity East Asian layouts and typography*.
• You have just reworked something that was poorly planned to start with...
  
10. Enhancements to everyday features :Design more precisely with fine-tuned features you rely on every day.
• I guess I will have to seek them out... Nothing jumped at me so far.

All in all, I am rather disapointed with 8.0. Not that it doesn't bring needed improvements but I would hardly call this an UPGRADE. To me, this should have been labelled 7.5. A while back Quark has asked us to suggest improvements for its software. I see very little of these recommendations included in this "upgrade". Most of the work seemed to have been done "under the hood". That IS a good thing in itself but put it frankly this is mearely addressing the functionality (or lack thereof) of a piece of software we already bought. In short, for 300$, I get to have an application that does what my current one does (without crashing as much) and as a bonus I get two itty bitty features that were not even on top of me "most wanted list". If your customer base were in the hundreds, I could have swallowed that price tag, but this is hardly the case... Can we settled for 50$ and a hand shake?