Quark Forums

OK. Is there going to be a maintenance release prior to the release of version 8? I think the answer is yes.

Is version 9 going to be a stand alone desktop application or not?

Hi, cewack,

cewack:

Is there going to be a maintenance release prior to the release of version 8? I think the answer is yes

However, releasing a point release of the former version after already having released the next major version, is something Quark has done in the past: As you remember we released QuarkXPress 6.52 after 7.00 shipped.

That is something not many software companies do; beside OS vendors I do not know many.

That all said, yes, we are working on fixing the major issues we know about. I'll let you know more specifics as soon as possible.

cewack:

Is version 9 going to be a stand alone desktop application or not?

Have a look at QPS as well as at our Dynamic Publishing Strategy, QuarkXPress is an integral part of both. Quark builds solutions around QuarkXPress.

Best
Matthias

Matthias Guenther (Quark):

I wonder if what you are asking is really about whether it will be a desktop application versus a web application,

Matthias,

That's exactly what I was asking. I understand the position you guys are in as far forecasting what the company's plan is. I didn't realize 6.52 was released AFTER version 7 (perhaps old age is kicking in). I'm not a fan of web based anything at the moment. It looks like version 8 is striving to be more like ID than more like a better version of QuarkXPress. For alot of users, version 4 was the pinnacle of XPress. Fast, stable, extendable (through a myriad of 3rd party xtensions) no web design capabilities and no surprises.

 I think there's a fair amount of frustration among users because there's a comfort zone with Quark and the thought of being forced to switch to the competion (either as the result of an edict from higher or from "peer" pressure) is not something people want to do. I've even had a Quark developer suggest we migrite to ID. Version 7 was not a good experience for us. I muddled through it and it cost us an excessive amount of time and effort. Couple in the data loss associated with the temporary file bug it had early on, type handling bugs and a slew of other issues... Quark (the company) hasn't exactly been creating alot of good will out here. I think the overall tone of this thread reflects that.

Thanks for the candor and speedy reply. I'll check out the white paper on QPS. 

As architect of Quark R&D Graphics, I can assure you we are hard at work on lots of cool bondulous things which are all desktop. We can't share that, obviously: so that creates an info vacuum, and naturally,  people are at liberty to fill that with nefarious conspiracy theories – often a trick employed when web sites need to drive traffic for their advertisers but have nothing to say.

Well you can't hardly blame us, the front end users, for thinking that you are distancing yourself from the "desktop market".

For years, your bread and butter has been the desktop market and yet if we look at your "revamped" website, it would appear that you forgot about that part entirely. For instance, the top-left now links to "http://dynamicpublishing.quark.com/" and not "http://www.quark.com/" like it did before,What's with that?.

I, for one, I am confused as hell with that new Dynamic Publishing. There is no mention of the desktop product on that site, that is if you stay clear of the Knowledge Base which for some reason does not contain the same information as the one "http://www.quark.com/". (When looking for an answer on the DynamicPublishing KB, I was told that my problem got fixed in Q7.4 and that my solution was to update my app

To me this whole "NEW WEBSITE" situation does not appear to have been thought through. If "http://dynamicpublishing.quark.com/" and "http://www.quark.com/" are different sites, make them LOOK different and don't assume that if I use this forum I must be comming from the "Dynamic Publishing" side of the equation, (why else would the top-left logo be pointed to "http://dynamicpublishing.quark.com/" where NONE of te ionformation found there bears any interest to me)

Hi, Scripting Ace,

QuarkXPress is part of Dynamic Publishing and Dynamic Publishing is also possible with QuarkXPress (e.g. the AppleScripts you do is also Dynamic Publishing). QPS (released first in 1992) has always been about Dynamic Publishing.

I think it mostly depends how you define "dynamic". We see it as being bigger than Automation, it is e.g. also Personalization and Multi-Channel.

Our Dynamic Publishing Solution is new though, combining a lot of new technology (like WordXpress) and proven technology (like QuarkXPress and QPS).

Best
Matthias

Hi Matthias,

I am not confused about the meaning of the word "dynamic", I am confused about your "Dynamic Publishing Website". Like I said, tehre is no mention of the desktop product on that site. How can you tell us that Quark XPress is part of Dynamic Publishing? If we want info on Quark XPress we have to go to www.quark.com, a different site though it looks very much alike.

Waht I am saying is on the one hand you are telling us that the desktop market is still part of "our" future and on the other you come out with "http://dynamicpublishing.quark.com/" that doesn't seem to acknowledge that the desktop market exist. On top of that you (and I mean Quark inc. here) make it more difficult on us to go to "www.quark.com" by changing the "home" link to point to "http://dynamicpublishing.quark.com/". 

This very mcuh look like you are phasing out  "www.quark.com" and the Desktop Market.

I am not saying that is the case, I am just saying what it looks like and as someone suggested, in the presence, or lack thereof, of information, one has a tendancy to fill the void. Unfortunately for you, we fill that VOID in accordance with the indicators that we have.

Graham PM (Quark):

bondulous

Anyway why not discuss cool future things on this forum, you might actually gat a bit of useful feedback.

Hi, Scripting Ace,

unfortunately when switching web site and forum technologies, there are always things to improve. However, that's not where the rumour came from, right? All of it seem to point to a certain source. Whether it is a credible source is a different topic.

However, I get what you are saying, once somebody heard something it is within the human nature to fill in voids with indicators for one or the other. Point taken.

I'll see what I can change. So once we change that, you'll be happy?

Have a great weekend!
Matthias

 Hi again Matthias and thank you for that.

 Now can you tell me where I can find theupdate to 7.4 as mentionned here

Bonjour Scripting Ace,

Quark is moving very quickly on a number of initiatives, including our website. In the past few months, we have introduced Enterprise and Desktop Knowledge databases; provided a Self Service Portal where you can log and track your support cases; developed a new user Forum; migrated our Enterprise website to a .Net environment; introduced a new QXP 8 website and will be migrating the balance of our "old" website in the immediate future. We have also introduced the same technologies for our other language web sites. A link to Desktop Products can be found in the Solutions Section for Enterprise Products, as in the Desktop Products a link to the Dynamic Publishing products. Once we completely migrate our web site, the single www.quark.com URL will be in use.

All of our products, Enterprise and Desktop require core Quark XPress technologies, and our support and dedication to desktop publishing should be evident with our 58 city Global QXP V8 tour starting next week in New York running through through October. We are currently developing V9 and planning sessions have been initiated for V10, as well as updates for V7.

We have additional exciting product, customer and partnership news which will be announced in the coming months.

Quark is focused on Desktop Publishing as well as the Enterprise. Dynamic Publishing is an extension of all Quark products plus additional new technologies, i.e. native XML,DITA/PRISM support, Word to Structured XML, CMS connectivity, etc.

Regards, Jim

Jim Haggarty:

Bonjour Scripting Ace,

My comments must have struck a nerve as I see that a couple of my points have already been adressed... 

Jim Haggarty:

Quark is moving very quickly on a number of initiatives, ...

I believe this to be the problem in a nutshell. Seems to me Quark is running to catch to many chikens at once. This often results in catching very few if at all. I realise that Quark is not a 20 persons shop and you have to delegate tasks if you want to have them carried away but this does not mean the departments cannot speak to one another. I mean if a tech support employee write in the Knowledge Base that we should update our Quark to 7.4 in order to fix a given problem, he/she should at least make sure that such update exists. It all comes down to communication.

Jim Haggarty:

All of our products, Enterprise and Desktop require core Quark XPress technologies, and our support and dedication to desktop publishing should be evident with our 58 city Global QXP V8 tour starting next week in New York running through through October.

I would love to see that but apparently Canada does not figure in your Global perspective... Is our dollar too strong?

Jim Haggarty:

We are currently developing V9 and planning sessions have been initiated for V10, as well as updates for V7.

Shall I mention the chickens again? When I first started working on Quark (circa v3.31), Quark was rolling out upgrades at a much slower rate  ( an update every 2 to 4 years), back the the application VERY stable and did "mostly' what we wanted/needed. If a feature was missing we had a slew of 3rd party XTensions to choose from. At the same time there were virtually no competition for you guys. So it cost us an arm and a leg to get the software but once it got installed we knew it would do the job.

More recently, another fish has entered the pond and this has obviously frazzled Quark. This new "fish" came out with a dismal attempt at your market but also came out with upgrades at 12-18 months interval and at a fraction of the price. In the mean, Quark was doing its best imitation of a dear in the headlights. The effect of all this is that you have to play catch up ball to regain your market share.

Short story, you went from one extreme to another... could we find a middle ground here? Could we wait for a version to be stable prior to think about working on a new one? I have no interest whatsoever in joining a Beta program that I have to pay to get in and this is what new upgrades of Quark look like lately. Diverting your resources like this dilutes the end product and while this DOES put more money in your pocket now, I do not think this is a sound long term investment.

Don't get me wrong, I may sound harsh and bitter in my remarks but I do have Quark at heart. As I told Matthias, the only thing we can go on is perception. This "perception" is a direct result each of your endeavours (applications, websites, these forums, etc.): The product is rushed, planification is bad and communication is worst. Please put yourself in our shoes for 5 minutes and tell me how it looks.

Regards, 

Scripting_Ace:

I believe this to be the problem in a nutshell. Seems to me Quark is running to catch to many chikens at once. This often results in catching very few if at all. I realise that Quark is not a 20 persons shop and you have to delegate tasks if you want to have them carried away but this does not mean the departments cannot speak to one another. I mean if a tech support employee write in the Knowledge Base that we should update our Quark to 7.4 in order to fix a given problem, he/she should at least make sure that such update exists. It all comes down to communication.

Not the case. All activities are well planned and in the case of the Knowledge base referring to V7.4, this is an innocent human error or an anxious employee who has worked with the pre-release version of 7.4. Our Knowledge base is updated by numerous persons from our global support teams, who are diligent in their efforts to provide as much information as possible. In the past, we did not have a Knowledge base, yet are now criticized for an innocent error in the current base. We are continuously striving to meet the Customer needs and will introduce additional self help tools in the future.

Scripting_Ace:

would love to see that but apparently Canada does not figure in your Global perspective... Is our dollar too strong?

Our Canadian customers and partners are extremely important to Quark. I have forwarded your valid comment about sessions in Canada to our QXP Product Marketing & Communications teams for a response and will follow-up.

Scripting_Ace:

Shall I mention the chickens again? When I first started working on Quark (circa v3.31), Quark was rolling out upgrades at a much slower rate  ( an update every 2 to 4 years), back the the application VERY stable and did "mostly' what we wanted/needed. If a feature was missing we had a slew of 3rd party XTensions to choose from. At the same time there were virtually no competition for you guys. So it cost us an arm and a leg to get the software but once it got installed we knew it would do the job.

More recently, another fish has entered the pond and this has obviously frazzled Quark. This new "fish" came out with a dismal attempt at your market but also came out with upgrades at 12-18 months interval and at a fraction of the price. In the mean, Quark was doing its best imitation of a dear in the headlights. The effect of all this is that you have to play catch up ball to regain your market share.

Short story, you went from one extreme to another... could we find a middle ground here? Could we wait for a version to be stable prior to think about working on a new one? I have no interest whatsoever in joining a Beta program that I have to pay to get in and this is what new upgrades of Quark look like lately. Diverting your resources like this dilutes the end product and while this DOES put more money in your pocket now, I do not think this is a sound long term investment.

Don't get me wrong, I may sound harsh and bitter in my remarks but I do have Quark at heart. As I told Matthias, the only thing we can go on is perception. This "perception" is a direct result each of your endeavours (applications, websites, these forums, etc.): The product is rushed, planification is bad and communication is worst. Please put yourself in our shoes for 5 minutes and tell me how it looks.

I agree Quark had a great reputation early on and slowly lost Customer focus as well as product quality. The new Management team has spent the last 1 1/2 years "putting ourselves in your shoes" to determine the issues and the remedies. As you can determine with Version 7, a number of maintenance/feature/performance releases were scheduled in 2007/2008 to bring the level of quality up to acceptable standards. With Version 8, we have been extremely diligent in our internal testing, have used over 400 independent testers, benchmarked performance, etc.. which were neglected in prior releases. Internally, our R&D and QXP Product Management believe this is the best release in Quark's history.

Version 8 is being delivered 24 months after Version 7. You can expect 18-24 month lags between releases for major versions of Quark software going forward. Our intermediate releases will include bug corrections as well as significant features which will be available to all persons on the current release.

We are very serious regarding our strategies,plans and focus. Products will NOT be rushed to market for revenue purposes. Quark is making solid measured progress on all fronts and I expect within the coming months all of your major concerns will be remedied.

Stay tuned and thanks for your support.

Jim

Jim Haggarty:

Hi Michel,

Hi Jim,

Let me start by saying how refreshing it is that you take the time answer me directly. And now being able to put a face top the name makes it even better. This should even be a policy for all you employees that have accounts in these forums.

Jim Haggarty:

Not the case. All activities are well planned and in the case of the Knowledge base referring to V7.4, this is an innocent human error or an anxious employee who has worked with the pre-release version of 7.4. Our Knowledge base is updated by numerous persons from our global support teams, who are diligent in their efforts to provide as much information as possible. In the past, we did not have a Knowledge base, yet are now criticized for an innocent error in the current base. We are continuously striving to meet the Customer needs and will introduce additional self help tools in the future.

I do not dipsute the fact that Quark has a plan here, I just wouldn't go as far as stating that it is "well planned". I only stated one small example by mentioning the v7.4 thing. I could have gone with a more exhaustive list (and I will if you want me to) but this would have simply skewed the debate by branching this discussion into different directions rather that seeing the "situation" as a whole. I know quite well that hickups can occur even with the best laid plan. I just think that the "size" of some of your "hickups" gives me pause as to the "qaulity" ofthe planning stage. Mind you we are left in the dark on many issues, not that you owe us to divulge everthing you are doing, so surely those missing bits of information prevent me from seeing the whole picture. This comes down to: We can only judge what we see of the proverbial "tip of the iceberg".

Jim Haggarty:

Our Canadian customers and partners are extremely important to Quark. I have forwarded your valid comment about sessions in Canada to our QXP Product Marketing & Communications teams for a response and will follow-up.

Glad the hear that. I would have loved to exercise my "stronger" dollar on my southern neihbor's territory but the lack of advance notice prevented it. Not to mention that I would be hard pressed in justifying the expense...

Jim Haggarty:

I agree Quark had a great reputation early on and slowly lost Customer focus as well as product quality. The new Management team has spent the last 1 1/2 years "putting ourselves in your shoes" to determine the issues and the remedies. As you can determine with Version 7, a number of maintenance/feature/performance releases were scheduled in 2007/2008 to bring the level of quality up to acceptable standards. With Version 8, we have been extremely diligent in our internal testing, have used over 400 independent testers, benchmarked performance, etc.. which were neglected in prior releases. Internally, our R&D and QXP Product Management believe this is the best release in Quark's history.

Version 8 is being delivered 24 months after Version 7. You can expect 18-24 month lags between releases for major versions of Quark software going forward. Our intermediate releases will include bug corrections as well as significant features which will be available to all persons on the current release.

We are very serious regarding our strategies,plans and focus. Products will NOT be rushed to market for revenue purposes. Quark is making solid measured progress on all fronts and I expect within the coming months all of your major concerns will be remedied.

Sorry, I really don't buy into all of this... Yes v8 will come out 24 months after v7 but since v7 got the "workable" status only with the 7.31 update, it has been really 8 months in our point of vue. The first 16 months of v7 was the "Paying Beta" program I was talking about. In essence, most of us have just started using v7 and already we hear of v8 (not to mention v9 and v10 that you mentioned earlier). I am sure that this 16 months could have been reduced to a much smaller time frame had your resources been kept on the v7 project rather than moved to the v8 one. That, in my mind, is "rushing to market for revenue purposes".

Jim Haggarty:

Stay tuned and thanks for your support.

Jim

Thank you, I will 

I haven't had the time to read ALL of this, but have got the drift.

However, without going through all of the posts, I haven't yet established whether Quark is planning to release a demo version of Quark 8. Only then will I be able to make up my mind about it, and would appreciate that opportunity, especially as I was recently quoted 299 UK pounds for the upgrade, which is not a small amount for someone who is self-employed.