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Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

Last post 12-15-2009 3:51 AM by Matthias Guenther (Quark). 8 replies.
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  • 08-28-2009 8:14 AM

    Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

    If you read this you probably already have encountered such a problem: you want to output a PDF and after some minutes working Quark tells you it cannot output the file. And you have no clue given with this.

    So here is a tip that might help you troubleshooting that. Simply output the file in seperate PDF's. It shall take much longer but you'll at least get a message on each page that cannot be output so you can jump there after all the pages have been processed and look further on what could be the problem on that page. Sometimes outputting that page again on its own "fixes" the problem.

    Gather then all the files in Acrobat.

    Jean-Marie Schwartz

    > Mac Pro Quad Core Intel 2.8 GHz, OS X.6.8, Quark XPress 9.2, Adobe CS5 <
  • 08-28-2009 9:27 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

     Jean-Marie. Just to add something here. I usually print to PS and then Distill to get PDFs. That's where I usually run into indivdual pages causing log files.

    I have often found that (once I find the correct page) if I save an EPS of the problem page and Distill that, it works. Why, I don't know, but it does – sometimes.

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  • 12-14-2009 11:02 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

     Quark's multi-page postscript often fail for me in Distiller, going back and outputting smaller chunks of pages often solves this phantom problem, it seems particularly to affect quark7 and can often more than double the time it takes to get some pdfs made.

    Jean-Marie you need to be careful not to trigger the dropped characters from embedded subsets bug combining files with Acrobat, I'd leave them as separate PDFs where possible.

    ... there was the puzzle of why the sun came out during the day, instead of at night when the light would come in useful.
    Terry Pratchet
  • 12-15-2009 1:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

    Glenn McDowall:
    <

    Jean-Marie you need to be careful not to trigger the dropped characters from embedded subsets bug combining files with Acrobat, I'd leave them as separate PDFs where possible.

    That's interesting, I'd never thought that far. Do you mean that combining files in Acrobat could result in missing characters? Did I get what you mean? If so, does it apply to Quark Export as PDF too? I know that it's part of Preferences in Acrobat to embed 100% or less of the fonts, but does Quark embed only subsets of characters or the whole font?

    Sth totally different: I've also noticed that LZW Tiff files can considerably slow down the PDFing process. Depending on the machine you're on you could avoid compressing such files. Obviously the downside of it is those pictures are much more "heavy". But it seems to be less time consuming to what I've experienced.

    Jean-Marie Schwartz

    > Mac Pro Quad Core Intel 2.8 GHz, OS X.6.8, Quark XPress 9.2, Adobe CS5 <
  • 12-15-2009 1:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

    Hi, Jean-Claude and Glenn,

    yes, QuarkXPress will always do a subset and so does Distiller in most cases regardless of your preference.

    Leonard Rosenthol of Adobe wrote an interesting comment about that:
    http://waltshiel.com/2009/01/08/pdf-fonts-full-embed-or-subset/#comments

    Enjoy!
    Matthias

    Matthias Günther
    Senior Product Manager
    Quark Software Inc.

    (Please note: As I am traveling frequently, answering your post might sometimes take longer)


    Want to easily publish for the iPad, using high-fidelity designs with stunning interactivity? See here:
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  • 12-15-2009 3:08 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

    Jean-Marie Schwartz:

    Do you mean that combining files in Acrobat could result in missing characters? Did I get what you mean? If so, does it apply to Quark Export as PDF too? 

     

    Yes, combining some PDFs using some Acrobat's produce PDFs that drop characters through some RIPs or other Acrobats, it was particularly common with German glyphs such as the double ss. I never found definitives but it was generally agreed that avoiding subsets (or avoiding combining or concatining using Acrobat or InDesign) would fix it, we had one customer plagued by it when he mixed CS3 and CS2 generated PDFs in InDesignCS3.

    Quark Export uses JAWS so perhaps its more conservative about naming/encoding subsets and produces PDFs that can't suffer from the bug.

     

    Matthais

    how did you come across that link, I always enjoy it when someone picks an argument with a really senior figure like Leonard, not realising who they are dealing withSmile.

    Second, as the follow-on to that, is your comment about needing the full embed for “late stage editing” is simply wrong. Adobe Acrobat will NEVER use the embedded font data for TouchUp – it will ONLY use an installed font that matches the embedded one. It must do so for legal reasons. Therefore, subset vs. full doesn’t matter – you still need the font resident on your computer to edit the text.

    I think this is avoiding talking about the capabilities of certain versions of Pitstop.

     

    The way I understand it is, that when the same font is embedded and two or more PDFs are joined

    Subset A + Subset B = Subset C

    Embedded A + Embedded A = Embedded A 

     

    ... there was the puzzle of why the sun came out during the day, instead of at night when the light would come in useful.
    Terry Pratchet
  • 12-15-2009 3:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

    Hi, Glenn,

    you have made my eyes hurt trying to figure out what a quote is and what your text. Wink

    I came across the comment when googling for embedded fonts a while ago, as I couldn't find anything on Adobe's website when another customer asked. As I have met Leonard at the Ghent Workgroup I thought his word regarding PDF might have some weight. 

    Glenn McDowall:
    The way I understand it is, that when the same font is embedded and two or more PDFs are joined

    Subset A + Subset B = Subset C

    Embedded A + Embedded A = Embedded A

    Not sure what you mean with this. The problem with a fully embedded font that is referencing a real font name is exactly what I think you might be hinting at: You combine two PDFs on one page (e.g. classified ads) and the same font (name) is referenced though it might be different (e.g. versions). And you just run into problems.

    That's another reason why (technically) subsetting a font is good practise even if 100% of the glyphs are embedded: Subsets get unique font identifier (inside the PDF) and you avoid issues when combining/outputting many PDFs with the same/similar font.

    Best regards
    Matthias

    Matthias Günther
    Senior Product Manager
    Quark Software Inc.

    (Please note: As I am traveling frequently, answering your post might sometimes take longer)


    Want to easily publish for the iPad, using high-fidelity designs with stunning interactivity? See here:
    English: http://youtu.be/Gldk5lvXXTA
    French: http://youtu.be/nsgB4Q7lQzg
    German: http://youtu.be/lecdenqaUGY
    Italian: http://youtu.be/wjBpYZsF-8s


    Need help? Contact Quark's support: http://support.quark.com/contact_us.html


    Please don't install the newest update 10.7.3 of Mac OS X Lion yet.
    For details please see here: http://goo.gl/AzKeR

  • 12-15-2009 3:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

    Matthias Guenther (Quark):

    That's another reason why (technically) subsetting a font is good practise even if 100% of the glyphs are embedded: Subsets get unique font identifier (inside the PDF) and you avoid issues when combining/outputting many PDFs with the same/similar font.

    Hi Matthias!

    So am I to understand that Quark Export has no risk regarding Glenn's remark? (Combining Quark exported PDFs would not result in font subsets issues?)

    Jean-Marie Schwartz

    > Mac Pro Quad Core Intel 2.8 GHz, OS X.6.8, Quark XPress 9.2, Adobe CS5 <
  • 12-15-2009 3:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Tip to help you troubleshooting a PDF output failure issue

    Hi, Jean-Marie,

    Jean-Marie Schwartz:
    Matthias Guenther (Quark):

    That's another reason why (technically) subsetting a font is good practise even if 100% of the glyphs are embedded: Subsets get unique font identifier (inside the PDF) and you avoid issues when combining/outputting many PDFs with the same/similar font.

    So am I to understand that Quark Export has no risk regarding Glenn's remark? (Combining Quark exported PDFs would not result in font subsets issues?)

     

    When I wrote "combining/outputting" I meant combining them on the same QuarkXPress page (in different picture boxes). You probably mean combining pages in Acrobat, right?

    Combining pages with different subsets of the same font in Acrobat should also work, the subsets should remain. However remember Mr. Murphy? I could imagine issues when using the same font with the exact same glyhps used. Also, each version of Acrobat might be different. Therefore I'd second Glenn's recommendation, if possible, leave the PDFs seperate.

    Maybe you could ask Adobe what they'd recommend.

    Thanks
    Matthias

    Matthias Günther
    Senior Product Manager
    Quark Software Inc.

    (Please note: As I am traveling frequently, answering your post might sometimes take longer)


    Want to easily publish for the iPad, using high-fidelity designs with stunning interactivity? See here:
    English: http://youtu.be/Gldk5lvXXTA
    French: http://youtu.be/nsgB4Q7lQzg
    German: http://youtu.be/lecdenqaUGY
    Italian: http://youtu.be/wjBpYZsF-8s


    Need help? Contact Quark's support: http://support.quark.com/contact_us.html


    Please don't install the newest update 10.7.3 of Mac OS X Lion yet.
    For details please see here: http://goo.gl/AzKeR

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