Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Discuss QuarkXPress color management functionality including DeviceN workflows

Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby peregrine101 » 16 Sep 2012, 04:16

Please Note: This has been re-posted with paragraph breaks after eyoungren was kind enough to let me know not to use Safari when posting!
I've been a long time Quark user and just recently updated to Adobe CS6 from CS4.I'm running into issues with the new Pantone 'Plus' system in Adobe and how it's not only displaying in Quark, but how it's affecting how I create final Press Quality PDFs. This is my standard workflow (and reasons why).
1) [b]I would create the vector graphics/logos I need in Illustrator -- and save as a Native AI files (with 'embed ICC' chosen -- since that option was the default)In CS4, that meant Pantone. In CS6 this means Pantone Plus for spot colors -- yes, I'm using spot colors in a process job, it's easier to stay somewhat consistent when producing one job to the next for colors. I do realize the PLUS system is LAB, not CMYK.
2) [b]All raster images are created in Photoshop, saved as Native PSD files in RGB. Again, I convert the RGB to CMYK (SWOP 20) when converting to final TIF.
3) I then start my page layout in Quark. Knowing the 'spot' colors I want are in the Illustrator files, i first place my Native AI files into Quark and that brings their specific colors into the palette. This way, I don't first create colors in Quark then end up having slightly different shades of the same PMS color later on. This workflow has worked well for me for years.Mostly learned this the hard way when I created layouts with Reflex Blue. The CMYK values weren't good in Quark, much better in Adobe. This produced a better Reflex Blue that wasn't purple!
4) Graphics (both vector & raster) would be placed For Placement Only (FPO). I'd send Medium Quality PDFs to client for approval.
5) After final approval, the vectors would be resized (if necessary) and saved as EPS files -- still using the PMS spot colors. The raster images would be resized (if necessary) and then converted to CMYK (using SWOP 20) and saved as a TIF.
6) The images would be re-placed into Quark.
7) I then right-click the spot colors in the color palette and choose "change to process".
8) Finally, I'd create a 'press quality' PDF, send to the printer and the results were perfect!

[b]HERE'S THE PROBLEM!
#1) Now that Adobe uses Pantone Plus, when I save the Native AI file and choose the default option of 'Embed ICC', when placed into Quark, the image is all black and white! If I save the AI file WITHOUT 'Embed ICC', when the image is brought into Quark, it looks perfect! When I save the file as an EPS, the placed image looks good as well.
#2) When I try to right click the spot color in the color palette, the "change to process" option is greyed out.
[b]SO MY QUESTIONS:
A) Is there a setting in Quark that I'm missing that will display a Native AI file that uses the new Pantone Plus system correctly so I don't have to save it as an EPS before I'm ready?
B) Besides 'editing' each spot color and changing it to CMYK (since right-clicking isn't an option), is there a better way to convert the Pantone Plus/Lab color to process within Quark?
C) Is there a better workflow?
I've read several threads about re-loading the older Pantone (CMYK based) colors into Adobe, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of 'moving forward' with new technology? And how long would those older colors be available with updates coming all the time?
Any help would surely be appreciated!!!
[b]Thank you in advance...Robert
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Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby peregrine101 » 16 Sep 2012, 04:18

Also...what's the trick to getting the returns to work in this thread. This wasn't set up as one, long, run-on sentence!Help!
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Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby eyoungren » 16 Sep 2012, 06:30

peregrine101 wrote:Also...what's the trick to getting the returns to work in this thread. This wasn't set up as one, long, run-on sentence!Help!

That's the only question of yours I can answer at the moment. When Quark bought this forum software and installed it in 2007 (used to be phpBB) the software was (and continues to be) not Safari-friendly. Despite rounds of complaints over the years (and promises), the Quark webteam has done nothing to fix this and in later years had completely ignored and not responded to the problem. But you can send an email to Matt James or Mark Lawler if you want. They can be looked up in a user search.
So, your only solution(s) are these. If you want to continue to use Safari, you need to use the html code for new paragraph any time you want to start a new paragraph. The only other solution is to use a different browser.
Note, that the forum software is not overly friendly to Opera users either.
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Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby peregrine101 » 16 Sep 2012, 07:14

Hi Eric:
Thanks for getting back to me. I'm now using FireFox to post.
From the many posters on these forums, I see your expertise on so many subjects, I had hoped you had a solution to my Pantone Plus dilemna. I guess I'll just stay patient. I have a request into support, but it's the weekend and I needed an answer sooner than later.
Again, thanks!
Robert
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Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby eyoungren » 16 Sep 2012, 08:19

I sent you an email.
Unfortunately, while I do own a copy of version 9.x I cannot run it at the moment because I do not have an Intel Mac. So my ability to help is somewhat limited by that fact. Secondly, as in my email about all I know of color management is to turn it off. I wasn't even aware that there was a new "Pantone Plus" until you wrote about it.
In the job that I do (a small community newspaper) "good enough" is the standard. While I don't care for that, we neither possess the equipment or time to produce consistently excellent work, but sometimes we trip into it. Producing "good enough" consistently though, is actually the challenge every week given what we have to work with.
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Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby max.peter » 16 Sep 2012, 08:45

Hi, Robert
I have CS6, but my clients do not. Because of this, till now I did not make extensive tests of the new suite in relation with XPress v. 9.3.
But I'd recommend you to import the AI files without a embed ICC. In CS there is a setting for all apps to use the same color management, but there is not any setting for making an automtic "accord" between the color management of CS and XPress.
If you need an appropiate color management in XPress, you can "tell" it to do this by setting the preferences you need, includig certain ICC profiles (Edit > Color Setups > Sorce > New > choose whatever settings you need).
You can convert the spot colors to process during exporting your layout to PDF: File > Export > Layout as PDF. In the dialog box press the "Options" button. In the "PDF export options" dialog box, go to Color in the left panel. In the right panel, for "Setup" choose "Composite CMYK". So, the resulting PDF file contains only process colors.
If you need a further control of the color profiles in the layout, you can go to Edit > Preferences > Color manager. Here you can choose for "Source options" the source you've created using the ICC profile you need. You can also specify the "Rendering intent" you need, globally for all the pictures in your layout, or you can check the "Enable access to picture profiles" checkbox, and the two checkboxes in the lower part of the dialog box regarding Vector EPS/PDF files. Then, you can open the "Profile information" palette from the Window menu. After selecting a picture box, you can choose different settings, from box to box, as you need.
Hope all these can help you.
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Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby peregrine101 » 16 Sep 2012, 09:38

Hi Max!
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly...thanks for the suggestions as well...if I may ask a couple of questions in regard to what you offered:
1) You state to [b]save AI files wihout embedding the ICC. The only reason I've done that in the past (CS4) is that it was already checked in the Save menu and I never really gave it a thought. I don't really set up ICC's, so I don't know which one it's embedding. I only notice it now, because as I stated before, Native AI files saved with ICC's show up in Quark as B&W, if I don't embed, they show up fine. IS THIS WHY YOU SUGGEST NOT TO EMBED? Or, is there a better reason not to embed? (And is there a way in Illustrator to have that unchecked as the default so I don't forget everytime I save?)
2) As for an 'appropriate' color management in XPress, I've never really used one - or purposely set one up. My EPS files with Pantone Spots had their colors converted to CMYK by simply picking the color in the palette, right-clicking and choosing 'change to process'. And, my final raster images were converted to CMYK (SWOP 20) and saved toTifs. Then the files were saved as Press Quality PDFs.
3) Is it a better workflow not to worry about converting the LAB colors that are brought over in the AI files (via Pantone Plus) and just use your method of choosing the option to create a Composite CMYK PDF? I thought it was better to convert the spots first. But I'm always -- even after 25 years -- willing to learn a better method!
4) Lastly, I use Press Quality PDFs. But I read somewhere else I should be choosing PDF/X-4 as a better choice
Once again, thanks for taking the time -- especially on a weekend -- to help me out! It's been a bit frustrating having to change a workflow and not being sure if I'm changing for the better, if my previous standards weren't good enough, etc.
Thanks!
Robert
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Postby eyoungren » 16 Sep 2012, 09:53

peregrine101 wrote:4) Lastly, I use Press Quality PDFs. But I read somewhere else I should be choosing PDF/X-4 as a better choice

I would use PDF/X-4. That's what we use when we export PDFs of our ads (we are using IDCS4 by the way). PDF meeting the X-4 spec are layered, have their fonts embedded and are 4 color+spot. You can be sure of a properly formatted PDF if you use this format because if it does not meet the X-4 specs it's not X-4.
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Workflow: Using Quark V9.3, Illustrator CS6 and new Pantone

Postby peregrine101 » 16 Sep 2012, 10:02

Hey:
Interesting: PDF/X-4. We don't want spot colors in our PDFs though, so I'd have to make sure everything is converted either before we make the PDF or in the PDF burn process. I guess I should also check with my printer to make sure they like that format. I know with Press Quality, the fonts are embedded. Okay, I'll look into that!!!
Thanks!
Robert
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Postby eyoungren » 16 Sep 2012, 10:28

Hmm. I double-checked and it appears that X-4 also allows RGB, which was not in the decription I read of it a while back. But that's ok as long as there is conversion to CMYK+spot. I know you don't use spot (you convert), but the profile allows for it. Anyway, by layers I mean transparency and in the case of Photoshop - layers.
PDF/X-1 does not allow for RGB, so your printer may ask for that, IDK. The default "Press Quality" in Distiller converts to CMYK (allows spot) all colors so that may be why it's always been what you used.
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