Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Discuss QuarkXPress color management functionality including DeviceN workflows

Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby DebraLeigh » 01 Dec 2011, 14:03

HELP! I have just installed Quark 9 and Adobe CS5 on a new iMac and the colours in my eps file look faded when imported into my Quark file. Same thing is happening with tiff and jpegs. Colours just do not match what I see in the Adobe programs. I tried creating a pdf file with compression set at high quality 'for press' and it still looks faded. As a test, I created a box in my Quark file using a cmyk colour (I created in Quark) to match my eps file, the box comes out the right colour but the colour in imported graphic does not look the same. I created a pdf file with both the imported graphic and the box I created ... the box I created in Quark looks fine but the imported graphic is faded ??? I've tested files that are from earlier versions of Photoshop and they still come out faded. And, finally, when I open files that were created in Quark 8, imported graphics look fine (even though I am in Quark 9) and PDF files created on my previous system also look fine. Please tell me there is an easy fix for this !!!!
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby eyoungren » 01 Dec 2011, 16:24

It's a color management issue Quark has not resolved yet. Here are some things I gave to another person with the same question a couple of nights ago.
1. It seems to be an issue with color management. More specifically with how version 9.x handles it.

2. AI or PDF "seem" to have better results than EPSfor awhile.

Some workarounds:

* Full Resolution Preview used on the selected image box appears to "help."

* open your document, go into Preferences > Color Manager and check Color Manage Vector EPS/PDF, and Include Existing. Then select the View menu > Proof Output > Composite CMYK (or some custom color setup if you have one).

* First set up the QuarkXPress color management clarified in the thread before [the workaround above]. For EPS [EPS from Illy]: Reopen them in AI [meaning open them back up in Illustrator] and bless them with a appropriate color management and you are done [how to "bless" or save the file with a color profile is described next -->]. Go first to Edit > Color Settings [after you have opened the EPS file]. Reselect your color working space or ensure the correct settings for the creative suite. You can do this also globally in the settings from bridge (weird I know). After changing the color management for the file, go to "save as". [give the file a new name save and import that new EPS file] After reimporting, the preview should be ok. For native AI [if you use AI files instead of EPS from Illustrator]: Always select in the export dialogue embed color profile.

Here is the thread where I got this all from.
In regards to your TIF files and if the EPS files in question are from PS and not Illy, I guess just try saving them with the color profile embedded. No idea if that's going to work or not though.
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby Jean-Marie Schwartz » 02 Dec 2011, 00:06

Since I have some free time for the moment, I've made some tests. (Obviously I cannot test thoroughly every parameters combinations.) Here are the results (7). Sorry for the French language used in screenshots and windows. HTH.

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Parameters for Source:
Jean-Marie (ECI-ISO)
RVB:Couleurs unies: eciRGB v2, PerceptibleImages: eciRGB v2, PerceptibleGestion couleur vers destinations RVB: NonCMJN:Couleurs unies: ISO Coated v2 (ECI), PerceptibleImages: ISO Coated v2 (ECI), PerceptibleGestion couleur vers destinations CMJN: NonLab:Couleurs unies: CIELab, PerceptibleImages: CIELab, PerceptibleGris:Couleurs unies: Quark Generic Gray, PerceptibleImages: Quark Generic Gray, PerceptibleGestion couleur vers destinations gris: NonCouleurs nommes:Toute nouvelle couleur nomme: AutomatiqueEncres:Toute nouvelle encre: Automatique Source 1

RVB:Couleurs unies: eciRGB v2, Colorimtrie absolueImages: eciRGB v2, Colorimtrie absolueGestion couleur vers destinations RVB: Non;CMJN:Couleurs unies: ISO Coated v2 (ECI), Colorimtrie absolueImages: ISO Coated v2 (ECI), Colorimtrie absolueGestion couleur vers destinations CMJN: NonLab:Couleurs unies: CIELab, Colorimtrie absolueImages: CIELab, Colorimtrie absolueGris:Couleurs unies: Quark Generic Gray, Colorimtrie absolueImages: Quark Generic Gray, Colorimtrie absolueGestion couleur vers destinations gris: NonCouleurs nommes:Toute nouvelle couleur nomme: LabEncres:Toute nouvelle encre: Automatique
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby Jean-Marie Schwartz » 02 Dec 2011, 02:04

Note that in my earlier post's tests, the Lab colour in Quark was created after the Lab values shown in Photoshop 5 when creating the background colour (Pantone 2592 C).
See the Preferences windows colour shift between tests 1 and 2 and the rest: only the first ones are "real" colours according to what I can see on my display. And the Colours settings in Photoshop are the same as in Quark (the engine is Apple's).
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby DebraLeigh » 02 Dec 2011, 03:29

Thanks for getting back to me. I later discovered that the problem seems to be with the Quark 9.1 update. I did the same test on my laptop which still had 9.0, whereas I had already done the Quark Update to 9.1 on my new iMac. Anyway, this morning I trashed Quark from my new computer and reinstalled it from the disk and DID NOT do an update... Retried creating the file I was attempting last night and the colours look fine. I'm going to stay away from updates for a while :-)
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby Glenn McDowall » 20 Dec 2011, 04:26

eyoungren wrote:1. It seems to be an issue with color management. More specifically with how version 9.x handles it.

2. AI or PDF "seem" to have better results than EPSfor awhile.

Some workarounds:

* Full Resolution Preview used on the selected image box appears to "help."

* open your document, go into Preferences > Color Manager and check Color Manage Vector EPS/PDF, and Include Existing. Then select the View menu > Proof Output > Composite CMYK (or some custom color setup if you have one).

* First set up the QuarkXPress color management clarified in the thread before [the workaround above]. For EPS [EPS from Illy]: Reopen them in AI [meaning open them back up in Illustrator] and bless them with a appropriate color management and you are done [how to "bless" or save the file with a color profile is described next -->]. Go first to Edit > Color Settings [after you have opened the EPS file]. Reselect your color working space or ensure the correct settings for the creative suite. You can do this also globally in the settings from bridge (weird I know). After changing the color management for the file, go to "save as". [give the file a new name save and import that new EPS file] After reimporting, the preview should be ok. For native AI [if you use AI files instead of EPS from Illustrator]: Always select in the export dialogue embed color profile.

Sorry if I'm describing something peculiar to v7 or 9 but with v8.5 none of this is working for me, I can get on screen matches only if I change the Quark Preference > Application> Monitor Profile to something other than Automatic, I've no idea why quark needs to know the monitor profile or what it does with the information.[:O]
Also this "blessing" of profiles to AI files surely only works for .ai and .pdf as I can't see anyway of attaching a profile to an illustrator eps.

@JMS
if you carry on your experiment through to pdf (just use [b]As Is or "[b]As Is with [b]use device independant colour checked" for your output space) you may find you get some very wierd numbers and color space info, along with differences between JAWS and Distiller.
As far as I can tell the preview of an EPS in quark is probably looking at the preview/thumbnail data which could be rgb even on a cmyk, (Graham Pm would know) so hoping to get an on screen match is a waste of time?
There is also the question of half-mapping PANTONEs by quark, when you bring in a colour to quark by placing an eps and then choose to colour up a quark object from that swatch, if its called PANTONE 2592 C, they won't match because the Quark object would have an alternate color split defined by quark (probably Lab) and the EPS would have an alternate color split defined by it's application (probably cmyk). The Alternate color splits would form a big chunk of how it looks on screen.
Again as far as I can tell checking Postscript Color Management in the second pane of Save as EPS in Photoshop is also very different to embedding or tagging an ICC profile to an image, to be honest I'm a bit confused about when ICC profile [b]is the colour space rather than a tag or add-on to a cmyk or rgb. At the moment I'm under the impression that Postscript Color Management converts the file to CIEXYZ (a different way of expressing Lab) along with a route back to the cmyk/rgb numbers, but it relies on something at the other end recognizing and performing the conversion. I'd steer well clear of it.
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby eyoungren » 20 Dec 2011, 07:27

Well, I'm just summarizing what I found in that thread. As to a profile for your EPS in Illy. Wouldn't that be Edit>Assign Profile? And then save the EPS?
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby Glenn McDowall » 20 Dec 2011, 22:49

I'm not seeing any option to embed the profile in an Illustrator CS5 EPS. If I close the file and re-open Illustrator also asks
! The document does not have an embedded color profile.

Assign Profile, in Illy, I think only sets the Document Profile (which acts as a replacement to to the Default Working Space Profile) which would be used if you choose to embed or convert when you save as PDF.
Remember that postscript does not support ICC profiles. So any profile embedded/tagged to an EPS (I'm guessing again) would be in the private data rather than the postscript, so if quark is able to see the profile its getting info not available to a RIP. Quark can see profiles with Photoshop EPS but not Illustrator, like I say it may be peculiar to my set up CS5.5 and Quark 8.5
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby Tsylvie » 02 Feb 2012, 03:00

Bonjour Jean-Marie. Aprs des semaines de galre pour faire fonctionner XPress9 sous mac 10.7.2 (incompatibilit avec time machine = plantages incessants), j'ai aujourd'hui un problme avec les imports illustrator en .ai : XPress les considre comme endommags mais de faon alatoire suivant les pdf ! J'ai fait le test avec les mmes logos imports en version .eps : a va mieux malgr qq bugs encore (fons blancs par endroit dans un logo transparent) ! Crises de nerfs, merci Quark. Bref, je vois que vous avez test de nombreux paramtres, je m'y perds, que faut-il paramtrer pour diter correctement des pdf en quadri, pour validation en basse def puis en haute def pour l'impression ? Merci mille fois
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Quark 9 - Colours of imported eps/tiff files look faded out

Postby Matthias Guenther (Quark) » 02 Feb 2012, 03:27

Hi Tsylvie,
can you please use English language in our forums? We have people from many nations here and the common denominator is English.
If you need to chat in French, then please write Jean-Marie a private message or an email. There's a contact button above each post to contact other users using these methods. Thanks!
Best regards
Matthias
Automatic Translation:
Salut Tsylvie,

pouvez vous s'il vous plat utiliser l'anglais dans nos forums? Nous avons des gens de beaucoup de nations ici et le dnominateur commun est l'anglais.

Si vous avez besoin de discuter en franais, alors s'il vous plat crivez, Jean-Marie un message priv ou un email. Il ya un bouton au-dessus de contatc chaque poste de contacter d'autres utilisateurs en utilisant ces mthodes. Merci!

Cordialement
Matthias
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