Paste as native objects = Garbage

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Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby svsmailus » 06 Sep 2017, 05:10

One of the big advertising plugs from Quark has been its ability to import. I have been a heavy Adobe Indesign user and every "Paste as native objects" has been a complete disaster. If you need to edit NOTHING you're fine, but woe-be-tide that you need to edit. I've found it faster to recreate the document then import with Quarks import engine and then attempt to edit. Here's the problem:

    • Text boxes with fills are imported with two text boxes, one with the border and one with the fill.
    • Text of different fonts, sizes and colours are all placed in the same story. There also seems to be some weird placing in the story so that moving the text becomes impossible, some text cannot even be selected.
    • Objects have space all around them that cannot be removed
    • etc, etc, etc.

This is so poor in my opinion that I no longer waste my time using it.

I'm better of placing an image of my design in the background and drawing the objects on top.

Sadly not a smooth move from Indesign to Adobe.
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby Matthias Guenther (Quark) » 06 Sep 2017, 06:13

Hi svs,

the quality of the import depends on which application was used to create the PDF or copy and paste to the clipboard. On Windows you also get better results if the copying application uses a PDF clipboard (instead of WMF/EMF). Mac uses PDF clipboards by default.

Most of our customers are getting really good results, especially from Illustrator, Affinity Designer or other professional software. MS Office produces mixed results, PowerPoint seems to be especially weird, 2d Excel charts import well.

So interested to see what you tried and where oyu received bad results, can you share an example please?

And by the way, InDesign does not offer such a feature, so not sure about your comment there.

Thanks
Matthias
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby svsmailus » 06 Sep 2017, 08:50

Hi Matthias,

I don't think I mentioned that Adobe had such a feature, but that Quark advertised the easy import of Indesign projects. This has been were my problem is. I take an Indesign document that contains text and graphics copy all the items and paste as native objects in QuarkXpress 2017. The result is that text that was separate is now in one story, text of different font size position and colour. The text in the story is extremely difficult to move and has been formatted by Quarkxpress to be positioned precisely. In some cases using a lead tab. Filled shapes come in with a massive space around them so the drag handles are not around the shape. Telling QuarkXpress to fit the box to content does not fit the box to the content. Perhaps there are hidden margins etc that Quarkxpress has introduced. All-in-all, when it comes to editing imported items, it is a nightmare. I've found it easier to recreate the document.

I had hoped that each item in Indesign would be the equivalent item in QuarkXpress and that it each item would become its own item not be merged with other items. This does not appear to be the case.

Don't get me wrong, I love QuarkXpress, but think the paste as native objects is completely useless when coming from Indesign.
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby MikeWenzloff » 06 Sep 2017, 09:15

I don't know what OS you are using, I'm using Windows. I have ID set to use PDF as the clipboard content.

If I copy a page from ID and paste as native objects in Q, it all seems to work out as good as I could expect--most of the time.

A PDF has no concept of multi-column frames. These will paste as individual frames in Q. A PDF has no concept of frame linkage, so frames of text will not be linked, though this is easily rectified in Q post-paste.

What will also happen is that the pasted content in Q will have everything grouped. You need to ungroup to really do much with the contents.

A couple of screen shots...which application is which is in the middle of the screen shot.

capture-001382.png
capture-001382.png (96.26 KiB) Viewed 404 times


capture-001383.png
capture-001383.png (136.26 KiB) Viewed 404 times
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby eyoungren » 06 Sep 2017, 12:45

svsmailus wrote:Hi Matthias,

I don't think I mentioned that Adobe had such a feature, but that Quark advertised the easy import of Indesign projects. This has been were my problem is. I take an Indesign document that contains text and graphics copy all the items and paste as native objects in QuarkXpress 2017. The result is that text that was separate is now in one story, text of different font size position and colour. The text in the story is extremely difficult to move and has been formatted by Quarkxpress to be positioned precisely. In some cases using a lead tab. Filled shapes come in with a massive space around them so the drag handles are not around the shape. Telling QuarkXpress to fit the box to content does not fit the box to the content. Perhaps there are hidden margins etc that Quarkxpress has introduced. All-in-all, when it comes to editing imported items, it is a nightmare. I've found it easier to recreate the document.

I had hoped that each item in Indesign would be the equivalent item in QuarkXpress and that it each item would become its own item not be merged with other items. This does not appear to be the case.

Don't get me wrong, I love QuarkXpress, but think the paste as native objects is completely useless when coming from Indesign.

Not to redirect the problem, but you may wish to look into ID2Q, which is a Markzware XTension for XPress that simply allows you to open InDesign files inside XPress (as if they were native).

http://markzware.com/products/id2q/

I use the opposite tool, Q2ID within InDesign CS4. Markzware pretty much has it down.

Note that I do not work for Markzware, I simply use their tools. Both Matthias and Mike can vouch for that.
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby MikeWenzloff » 06 Sep 2017, 14:54

I use the ID2Q. And it does work well. Unfortunately they stopped Windows development. I would have gladly upgraded.

There is also another, I think from Badia, that uses IDML as the conversion source. But also MAC only.
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby svsmailus » 07 Sep 2017, 09:52

Thanks guys, I had hoped QX would do the job!

Let me repeat, it is editing the imported content that is a nightmare.

I now recreate as it's faster and I've not got hidden elements imported etc.
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby MikeWenzloff » 07 Sep 2017, 10:19

Is the content still grouped?
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby Matthias Guenther (Quark) » 07 Sep 2017, 16:39

Dare to share such a file that doesn't work for you?

Thanks
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Re: Paste as native objects = Garbage

Postby UtahLlama » 09 Sep 2017, 10:25

This week I had to finally use this feature for a live job, turning a messy 4page PDF that needed extensive edits impossible with Pitstop, I took the decision to Convert to Native objects. I had done quite a few test files with 2016 and 2017 and it has been quite varied results.
Most of what I converted worked pretty well, considering I didn't have the exact match for fonts and had to replace with early Type 1.
In all I spent about 6hrs, but now have something easy to edit. The slowest part for me was re-grouping chunks of vectors that would have existed as an Illustrator image prior to ending up in the pdf.
With the paragraphs, its quite tricky, on one page I had a paragraph top left, and another paragraph middle-right. Convert to Native objects, gave me a test-box with everything top left and then the top two lines from the middle-right with the weird formatting (tabbing?). The rest of the middle-right paragraph was split into individual text boxes of one line each.

Matthias can you post a link to a tutorial as to how to re-link text boxes or join these into one? (I have it in the back of my mind that was an implemented feature?)

Also the only way I could cut and paste those rogue two lines was to Paste without formatting then re-style, just kept getting the overflow red square. There is def something going with space in front or tabbing that I couldn't figure out.
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