Space Before

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Re: Space Before

Postby max.peter » 26 Apr 2015, 02:22

I have to say it, sorry.

For a beautiful design, sometimes I use to create - let's say - three separate text boxes instead a single one with three columns. So I am able to apply different formatting for each text box. Sometimes I am using also my own grid to align text, titles or whatever design element I am inserting in my layout.
Yes, I know it is more work to do. But I don't think there is a layout software that let you do anything in a automatic way.
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Re: Space Before

Postby PetarMakedonecot » 26 Apr 2015, 06:23

Well, it is normally that everybody has it's own way of doing the job. Whether it will be complicated or not -- it depends of his skills.
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Re: Space Before

Postby MikeWenzloff » 26 Apr 2015, 09:34

First let me say that I think this suggestion has value for someone who desires this option. To be of value for Quark to devote resources to implementing it, I think that one needs to show why it would be of value to X number of users.

I think your example of a chapter start page isn't a good example of why it would be of use to a broader base of users. For chapter starts I just use a master page set up for them. No need for object styles or space before on the chapter head.

Perhaps because of my usage, I can only think of a single instance of when this would be of use. Got any more instances (as in more than one) why this would be a good suggestion? And be sure to explain the why it is of use to a broad base of users.

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Re: Space Before

Postby PetarMakedonecot » 26 Apr 2015, 12:43

OK, but can you explain me why Quark decided, on their own, to suppress that option? Who told them it is not needed? They make professional app so they must listen to users not to decide on their own what users might want.
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Re: Space Before

Postby MikeWenzloff » 26 Apr 2015, 13:22

PetarMakedonecot wrote:OK, but can you explain me why Quark decided, on their own, to suppress that option? Who told them it is not needed? They make professional app so they must listen to users not to decide on their own what users might want.

Was it ever in Q? I cannot remember going back to v3...if it was there, I never used it. Other than that, if it had been in Q before, I of course cannot answer as to why it was removed.

Again, I respect the suggestion. But I have never had this requirement. I do want to understand its uses in concrete means beyond a title page head beginning lower on a page.

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Re: Space Before

Postby PetarMakedonecot » 26 Apr 2015, 14:12

Well, this option is supposed to work as "Space After" does. And, if someone want to disable it, give him an option to make it inactive in a specific paragraph style. I need this option and I don't think I am the only one. The others may use some workarrounds, as I do know, but it is up to them. My suggestion is the only ellegant solution to this "problem".
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Re: Space Before

Postby MikeWenzloff » 26 Apr 2015, 14:38

As far as I know, space before/after has always worked as Q does presently in every layout application (with the possible exception of Ventura as I mentioned but it's been too long). That is, values are disregarded at the top of a text box. Could be wrong. So I don't think it's been removed.

Which makes it a valid candidate for suggestion. But I do think the case needs to be made as to why if there is any hope for it to be implemented. That's all I am saying.

I can think of at least a few things that would be of benefit to myself and many others. For instance, host-based separations that got removed from version 10 but are in previous versions. Integrated image captions and figure numbering ala Ventura and not the clunky means that Adobe implemented in ID. I could go on. But despite making the request for these features (myself and others), they are not even mentioned as possible additions for the future.

On the other hand, running headers have been requested much over the past. From Matthias' posts on Q2015, this feature is finally making its appearance for the first time once the new version is released.

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Re: Space Before

Postby PetarMakedonecot » 26 Apr 2015, 14:46

My suggestion is very easy to implement. It does not need to redesign Quark from scratch.
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Re: Space Before

Postby MikeWenzloff » 26 Apr 2015, 16:02

Whether it is easy programmatically or not isn't for me to judge. I have no idea if it is simple to do.

I have seen requests for help to do this from a handful of people since I began layout in 1989. I have never been pointed to a style guide or a spec sheet specifying this as a requirement. It may exist. I don't know. The onus is still on us as users to somehow convince Quark our ideas are worth implementing.

Even then, it has to be decided on Quark's end that it can be incorporated without affecting other code unduly and or that code can also be made to not be affected--and other code that depends on the ... you get the picture.

All I wanted was to understand a perfectly valid request. As I haven't been informed as to why this is a good idea to implement, I'll leave the thread alone and stop asking. Good luck.
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Re: Space Before

Postby PetarMakedonecot » 26 Apr 2015, 16:58

All I wanted was to understand a perfectly valid request. As I haven't been informed as to why this is a good idea to implement, I'll leave the thread alone and stop asking. Good luck.

Am I talking with somebody that is in a Quark staff?
Can you explain to me what you mean under valid request?
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