Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Discuss functionality of QuarkXPress 10, 9 & 8 (and before) (excluding Digital Publishing).
For Digital Publishing functionality please refer to forums in the "Digital Publishing" group.

As QuarkXPress 1 thru 10 are not supported by Quark anymore, please upgrade to a newer version of QuarkXPress if you are looking for official support. Support options for supported versions are here: http://support.quark.com
charlieartist
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Joined: 11 Nov 2004, 16:14

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by charlieartist » 14 Nov 2005, 19:23

It will be interesting to see (no knocks or bias toward anyone). Personally, though, only real-life usage will tell, though. For example, the latest release of Adobe's main-line apps (Creative Suite 2) gave some users fits, although it has been smooth sailing for me. Ditto for Mac OS X 10.4.X. But, since most everyone has a different setup on the software and hardware side, there are variables that even the most astute and dedicated QC team can't discover or anticipate until the finished product is in the hands of mainline users.

Bivouac Ponzetti
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 09:12

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Bivouac Ponzetti » 15 Nov 2005, 10:55

Did they say anything about PDF support in 7?

Tim OConnor
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Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Tim OConnor » 15 Nov 2005, 13:18

I only got to see the end of the demonstation and sadly did not have time to wait for the next. I di however get a chance to chat with the Canadian rep.

People asking specific questions got specific answers, the was no dodging aside from not being able to indicate a delivery date {or even a ballpark} People seemed satisfied in that since major new functions were still in developement, any artificial due date wqas premature.

It was all but unanimous that the audience wanted QX7 done right as opposed to Right Now. PSD support, Drop Shadows and various bells and whistles were on display, but most took them for what they were.

The Quark rep admitted that most of what they are showing pre-release is "catch up" to Indesign, but he said as much that Quark is saving the big guns for the release of the working product.

The audience seemed pleased but cautioned Quark better not blow it...


For a half ready undelivered product, I was not unimpressed and give the rep credit for standing up and not being full of it...

Hopefully that is a good sign of things to come.

Bivouac Ponzetti
Posts: 40
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 09:12

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Bivouac Ponzetti » 15 Nov 2005, 13:38

[img]../../themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"> [strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]People asking specific questions got specific answers, the was no dodging aside from not being able to indicate a delivery date
Did you ask him if the transparency prints? Or if they'll be able to put live transparency in a PDF? I have yet to have a rep not dodge those questions. :wink:

I'd be interested in getting straight answers to those questions, if only because the real test of whether or not Quark can compete is if they can successfully execute on this.

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]It was all but unanimous that the audience wanted QX7 done right as opposed to Right Now.
Sure, but when has that not been true? It would be charitable to say that Quark's record to date on this score has been mixed.

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]The Quark rep admitted that most of what they are showing pre-release is "catch up[/img] I don't buy this at all. I think this rep was blowing smoke.

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]The audience seemed pleased but cautioned Quark better not blow it...
I think that's right. If their new text capabilities are problematic, and if their transparency support is less than Adobe's, or if it's buggy, then...

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]For a half ready undelivered product, I was not unimpressed and give the rep credit for standing up and not being full of it...
We'll have to wait to see if he was full of it or not. I think what Quark has been promoting for 7 is ambitious. I think it's an open question as to whether or not they can really deliver on an adequately robust and reliable set of transparency features. Showing things on screen is easy. Separating and printing it correctly is another thing entirely...

Linda
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Joined: 02 Jun 2004, 14:57

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Linda » 15 Nov 2005, 13:55

[strong]Bivouac Ponzetti:[/strong]I'd be interested in getting straight answers to those questions, if only because the real test of whether or not Quark can compete is if they can successfully execute on this.

Then again... speaking as someone who has never needed transparency (black and white or 2/c book interiors are my bread and butter), in my world all the brouhaha about transparency is unwarranted. I couldn't care less if a layout program has it or not... Different strokes for different folks, and an example of the varied world in which we all use the same app for different purposes.

peace,
Linda 8)

Bivouac Ponzetti
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Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Bivouac Ponzetti » 15 Nov 2005, 14:24

[strong]Linda:[/strong]Different strokes for different folks, and an example of the varied world in which we all use the same app for different purposes.

Sure. Not everyone needs transparency. Not everyone will need XPress 7. However, I need it, and if you're going to compete with InDesign (and not PageMaker...or Publisher), you need transparency...and more. Hence the new features that Quark is talking about.

Tim OConnor
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Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Tim OConnor » 16 Nov 2005, 13:44

[img]../../themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"> [strong]Bivouac Ponzetti:[/strong]Did you ask him if the transparency prints? Or if they'll be able to put live transparency in a PDF? I have yet to have a rep not dodge those questions. :wink:

No I did not, He clearly stated that most of the "heavy hitter[/img]
And since Adobe canot get transparancy to "print correctly" on all possible configurations of equipment, Rips and operators... That sort of question is moot for now.

Those are questions that Quark will have to answer when a final product is ready to ship.

I am not giving Quark undue praise. I was just not immediately pessimistic about what I did see. :wink:

Bivouac Ponzetti
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 09:12

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Bivouac Ponzetti » 16 Nov 2005, 14:06

[img]../../themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">%20[strong]Tim%20OConnor:[/strong]No%20I%20did%20not,%20He%20clearly%20stated%20that%20most%20of%20the%20"heavy%20hitter[/img] Sure. But either they are planning to support live transparency in a PDF or they are not...and either they're successfully printing right now in testing, or they're not.

[img]../../themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">%20[strong]Tim%20OConnor:[/strong]And%20since%20Adobe%20canot%20get%20transparancy%20to%20"print%20correctly[/img] You can't be serious. You may have meant this a throw-away line, but that's like saying that since InDesign doesn't run on a Mac Plus then the fact it does run very nicely on a G4 or G5 doesn't really count or matter.

No app is going to print reliably on "all possible" equipment configurations (when has Quark or any app ever met that standard?). The relevant fact for most of us in the real world is that you see ID's transparency working every day (and in high quality) in mags, and other documents produced all over the world. That's the target Quark has to hit (at least parity in reliability and quality), and if they don't then, for many publishers, Quark becomes moot...

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]I am not giving Quark undue praise. I was just not immediately pessimistic about what I did see. :wink:
Understood. But we haven't seen anything print, and we haven't heard any answers regarding the extent of 7's transparency support in PDF (or at least I haven't), and those are two important questions for some of us. And, as you point out, we won't know what's hype and spin vs what's reality until we get our hands on the released product...at some point. In the future.

Tim OConnor
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Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Tim OConnor » 17 Nov 2005, 05:37

[img]../../themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"> [strong]Bivouac Ponzetti:[/strong]You can't be serious. You may have meant this a throw-away line, but that's like saying that since InDesign doesn't run on a Mac Plus then the fact it does run very nicely on a G4 or G5 doesn't really count or matter.


I am absolutely serious. Indesign has serious flaws, much like any piece of complex software. Arrogance keeps Adobe from admitting those flaws until they release a bug fix or a new version. Again much like most other software makers...INCLUDING QUARK.

As for your assumptions as to my convictions or your knee jerk extreemism about runnig Indesign on a Mac Plus... that just places you in with all the Adobe Idealogues who won't accept anything but the complete and total rejection of anything outside of the Creative Suite.

As you said.. "Different Strokes...[/img]
I spent way too much time a couple of years ago, in such debates...

Bivouac Ponzetti
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 09:12

Graphics Canada Printing Convetion

Post by Bivouac Ponzetti » 17 Nov 2005, 07:15

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]... that just places you in with all the Adobe Idealogues who won't accept anything but the complete and total rejection of anything outside of the Creative Suite.
Well, then I guess we can agree (one ideologue to another) that, at the very least, XPress 7's transparency needs to be no more deeply flawed than that other product; and that if they really do it right, if they really mean it when they say it won't ship until it's ready, that it will print reliably on all possible hardware and software configurations. That's something worth waiting for, to be sure.

:wink:

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