Quark 10: converting black 1-bit images to CMYK in PDF

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iain robinson
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008, 04:49

Quark 10: converting black 1-bit images to CMYK in PDF

Post by iain robinson » 06 Jun 2019, 04:20

Hi all

A customer is running Quark 10.0r1 on Windows and is supplying a PDF of a cover with a barcode printing out of CMYK rather than black. We can fix this easily enough in the PDF but I asked to see the files to check what was going wrong and fix it for future covers.

I confirmed the barcode tif file is indeed a 1-bit/line image and it is coloured black within Quark. When I make the PDF here (10.5.2.4, Mac) the barcode outputs as expected - black only. I can't reproduce the problem here at all, even using the same (PDF/X-1a) output preset they were using.

I have never seen this behaviour before - any clues? Is this a known problem with 10.0r1? The Quark downloads page doesn't go back that far so I can't see what the various updates to v10 did. Not sure why they are running a non-updated version but even if I could find all the installers I am loathe to suggest they update in case it has a knock-on effect on their system/jobs in-hand.

Any advice gratefully received!

Iain

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MikeWenzloff
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Re: Quark 10: converting black 1-bit images to CMYK in PDF

Post by MikeWenzloff » 06 Jun 2019, 09:25

Hi Iain,

I do have 10 installed on one computer and also could not replicate the issue, but with my own files.

Just a question regarding my own confusion. If it is a 1-bit image, why color it at all in Q if the goal is to not have it separate to a CMYK mix versus 100% K?

In any case, the only way I could see it happen would be some output profile weirdness.

One thought would be if there isn't a document output intent, Acrobat would use whatever its default is in its Preferences and could/would then report a CMYK mix if it is not the same as the document is using.

Mike

iain robinson
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008, 04:49

Re: Quark 10: converting black 1-bit images to CMYK in PDF

Post by iain robinson » 06 Jun 2019, 10:00

Hi Mike - thanks for your reply.

What I meant was that I checked it was black (picture colour) rather than the customer had accidentally coloured it RGB or CMYK (or Registration colour) by mistake. The background colour is set to None rather than White but that shouldn't matter.

Good shout about the differing output intent in Acrobat - that has caught me out before - but it is not that. I checked the colour in PitStop's eye-dropper tool and also extracted it into Photoshop where it opens as a CMYK image. It's definitely CMYK in the PDF. I checked in Quark's Colour Manager (in Preferences) - nothing weird or unexpected in there.

Since if I take the same document, same image file and use the same output presets but get a different result it must be down to their copy of Quark. Either that (very early) version of 10 had a bug in this regard or their installation is damaged in some way.

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MikeWenzloff
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Re: Quark 10: converting black 1-bit images to CMYK in PDF

Post by MikeWenzloff » 06 Jun 2019, 12:29

No worries.

Hmm. Without going backwards to an earlier revision, I cannot test.

I did read through the Q10 PDF for known and resolved issues. There are 11 issues with 1-bit images that were resolved throughout 10's revisions. But I don't think their descriptions fit the issues your clients are having.

If you do persuade them to update in order to test on their end, they should do so to a single machine and make an image of the system using tools for whatever OS they are using.

The PDF I was reading concerning known/resolved issue is available here:
http://www.quark.com/Support/Documentat ... ss/10.aspx

Take care, Mike

These are the issues I found, but I was only scanning the PDF:

Known Issue Outstanding with the latest version installed:

The color depth is shown incorrectly for imported Gray, 1-Bit, Index and Lab images. (172020)

Following is a list of issues resolved in QuarkXPress 10.5.

RESOLVED: Drop shadows applied to transparent 1 Bit and grayscale images are not outputting correctly. (183903)

RESOLVED: (Windows only) If you have a project containing a1 Bit image with a NONE picture background applied, the image is not outputting when you output to a Non-PS printer. (175535)

Following is a list of issues resolved in QuarkXPress 10.2.

RESOLVED: I you import Grayscale images with profiles assigned and the picture box background is set to None, the images are outputting in all the plates when it should be outputting in the Black plate only. (166643)

RESOLVED: PDF files containing colorized 1 Bit images with None background applied are importing incorrectly. (173382)

Following is a list of issues resolved in QuarkXPress 10.1.1

RESOLVED: If you import Grayscale images without an assigned profile, the images are outputting in all the plates when it should be outputting in the Black plate only. (166642)

RESOLVED: Black color is outputting in all the plates, not just the black plate, in CMYK, Device N, and In RIP Separations output setups. (156277)

Following is a list of issues resolved in QuarkXPress 10.1

RESOLVED: If you open a legacy QuarkXPress project containing 1-bit/grayscale images whose background is set to None, and export as PDF, you receive a PS error on output. (158234)

RESOLVED: 1 Bit colorized images with None picture background applied to it gets flattened if the there is a color applied to the picture box. (164739)

RESOLVED: Grayscale and 1 Bit Colorized images with spot color are outputting in white color in Grayscale and Grayscale 100K output setups. (156726)

RESOLVED: If you overlap a 1 Bit image with a box that has opacity applied to it, the overlapping object becomes opaque, causing the image underneath to be invisible in flattened output. (163617)

RESOLVED: If you apply Overprint picture trapping to a 1-bit/grayscale image in a picture box that is overlapping a solid color box whose fill is set to None, the 1-bit/grayscale image will not be output with the applied overprint settings. (97957)

iain robinson
Posts: 20
Joined: 24 Nov 2008, 04:49

Re: Quark 10: converting black 1-bit images to CMYK in PDF

Post by iain robinson » 07 Jun 2019, 02:03

Thanks Mike for taking the time to post this - that is very useful. It sounds like it may be one of these issue;

RESOLVED: I you import Grayscale images with profiles assigned and the picture box background is set to None, the images are outputting in all the plates when it should be outputting in the Black plate only. (166643)

RESOLVED: PDF files containing colorized 1 Bit images with None background applied are importing incorrectly. (173382)

I'll get them to try setting the background to White - I did notice that the background was None, so fingers crossed that is it. Failing that they will have to update their copy.

Anyone know where I could find the update files? From memory you have to install 10.1 before 10.2 etc - you can't just go straight to 10.5.

thanks,
Iain

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UtahLlama
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Location: The Grand Line

Re: Quark 10: converting black 1-bit images to CMYK in PDF

Post by UtahLlama » 15 Jun 2019, 11:31

version 10.0 had some issues with colour management hierarchy not working as expected, I take it that PDFX 1a you are using is using cmyk or cmyk+spot as its output colour space, both of these output colour spaces would bug and force through profile to profile conversions overriding the other supposed higher level controls/prefs to prevent cmyk to cmyk changes. It was suggested at the time to use As Is as a Workaround but this would break PDFX rules so wouldn't work if you need the Standard.
As Mike has posted; so many resolved bugs pointing to the use of Bitmaps / Greyscale / and None as a background colour, it could be any of these along with Input or Output Colour Settings or even PDF Compression settings (certainly q2015 would convert hi-res bitmaps to low res greyscale unless there was no compression and no downsampling to all 3 image types (colour greyscale and bitmap)).

Rather than being proactive its sometimes best to say nothing and just continue to convert in the pdf. They probably can't face the argument with the unreasonable IT department who haven't updated from 10.0 despite it being free.

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