Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Discuss QuarkXPress color management functionality including DeviceN workflows
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Anonymous

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by Anonymous » 25 Mar 2005, 07:51

Hi Mr. Reichl,

a proof system has three possibilities to reproduce spot colors:
- either it supports special spot color inks (which doesn't apply in your case)
- it derives the color representation from the spot colors alternate color space
- it has an internal color map which includes named spot colors and optimized substitution color values (in Lab, RGB or CMYK color spaces) which are used to output the spot color

As your printing to a plain color printer I assume method 2 or 3 is used. If I ckeck how the alternate color space for PANTONE SOLID Coated 125 is defined in QuarkXPress 6.5 I see it's 0% C 26% M 100% Y 26% K. You didn't write what QuarkXPress version you're using. Maybe your PANTONE library isn't up to date.

So the first thing to check is whether a custom CMYK color with the above tint values will look the same as the PANTONE color on your printouts. if yes, than it's proven that the
- alternate color space approach is used.
- the right PANTONE library is used.

The reason why the same spot color looks different if it's aprt of an placed EPS or PDF file is normally that either
- a different PANTONE or HKS library is used
- the definition the alternate color space used by the library is different (e.g. Lab vs. CMYK)

If I check the definition of PANTONE SOLID Coated 125 in Adobe Illustrator CS I see that it also uses CMYK as an alternate color space and exactly the same tints for all four CMYK channels. if i create a PDF file from the a layout in which I place such an illustrator EPS with spot color and which alos contains the same color From QuarkXPress, both look absolutely identical. And even if I measure the color with Acrobat 6 or 7 Professional the values of the alternate CMYK color space are absolutely identical. So this can't be the reason.

Also the name of the spot color is absolutely identical to the one chosen by QuarkXPress which is "PANTONE 125 C". So this too can't be the reason.

a.hayton
Posts: 20
Joined: 31 Dec 1969, 19:00

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by a.hayton » 29 Mar 2005, 02:21

Bernard,

As a test, import the eps into a blank Quark document without any colours being set. You should then see that the PANTONE 125 C colour comes in from the illustrator file. Use this colour to create another blank box and print it out from quark to the printer and see what you get.

designation
Posts: 0
Joined: 29 Mar 2005, 20:47

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by designation » 29 Mar 2005, 20:58

Bernard,
I've run into the same problem. I don't know alot about how color lasers mechanically work. But I've had the same problem printing PMS colors from Quark as well. Near all of our clients have a PMS color and if we ever have to print any proofs on our color laser the PMS does exactly what you are talking about. Illustrator EPS files set in the PMS color print fine, but the Quark text, elements, etc using the Quark version of the PMS prints off. This is almost everytime. When we send it out to the real printers they have never had a problem. So for temporary purposes if I have to print a proof I be sure to save the final version. I go under "edit colors" and I uncheck the Spot Color and set Model: to CMYK. Then you can eyeball because Quark is not good converting PMS to CMYK. Then print on your laser for proof purposes (obvously not a color proof.) Then revert to saved. It's a pain, but a quick fix. You would just think that Quark would get it right. It has something to do with their particular Pantone Color System. Hope this helps.

Choking_My_Trap
Posts: 1
Joined: 21 Mar 2005, 07:36

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by Choking_My_Trap » 30 Mar 2005, 08:44

I have a 7700GX, couldnt reproduce your problem with quark 6.5 and Illustrator CS OSX. My colour was consistent with PMS125c from the eps in quark, the pms colour used within quark from the eps was the same, and I used quarks pms125 and renamed it and it was the same as the rest. Printed directly from AI and it matched my quark outputs

Not sure what the problem is, I even made my colour profiles all wacked and it still printed the same.

The only way I got my colours to print off from what quark does and from the eps is when I print with my output:print colours As-Is, then I would get different colours.

When I dissected a pdf I made everything was the same, the only difference is with default settings in both apps, the EPS files from illustrator have no overprint, and quark puts an overprint on its objects.

Anonymous

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by Anonymous » 30 Mar 2005, 09:17

Hi choking_my_trap,

if you select "As is" as output mode in QuarkXPress 6 then all spot color are transformed into RGB colors. That means that your spot color underlies an spot-to-RGB-to-CMYK transformation which of course gives you a noticeable color shift in comparison to printing it as a spot color.

lesliegodbe
Posts: 0
Joined: 10 May 2005, 16:45

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by lesliegodbe » 10 May 2005, 16:54

We have had problems with a number of colors. The most frustrating part is that they print inconsistently within the same document. The inconsistent part is what is leading me to believe that this is a Quark 6.5 issue rather than a Phaser issue. Again, the same color spec'd in Quark will print differently throughout the document.

Colors we have had problems with are:
PMS 404 grey prints golden yellow
PMS 200 prints either bright red or dark red
PMS 424
PMS 425

inichi
Posts: 1
Joined: 07 Mar 2006, 12:24

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by inichi » 07 Mar 2006, 13:04

[strong]lesliegodbe:[/strong]We have had problems with a number of colors.

Ditto. i'm getting (every once in a while) colors that seem to corrupt and print out brighter than they should---a lot brighter and more saturated. And not only when i print to my Phaser, but when i create and distill a postscript file. what i've done to get around that is edit the CMYK value(s) by a percent or two. then what looks nearly identical on screen prints out COMPLETELY different, or rather, correct. WIERD!

Any ideas???

a.hayton
Posts: 20
Joined: 31 Dec 1969, 19:00

Printing PMS 125 in Quark to Xerox Phaser 7750DN is horrible

Post by a.hayton » 07 Mar 2006, 13:24

It might be that the colours used have different alternate colour spaces. If you use an eps from illustrator 8 it has a different cmyk make up compared to Illustrator CS2 as Pantone have gradually changed the pantone library over the years.
I have had a pdf file created from quark with different eps images brought in. In the finished pdf the colours looked way off but when printed to separations on a press it was fine. Printing to a laser printer was fine too. What it was was the rgb colour values were wrong.
In your case it sounds like the cmyk values are wrong. You would need pitstop to check a pdf created using the ppd you use for the phaser.

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