another ligature problem

Discuss functionality of QuarkXPress 2020.

For Digital Publishing functionality please refer to forums in the "Digital Publishing" group.

Want to discuss with hundreds of fellow QuarkXPress fans and interact with the QuarkXPress team? Then join our Facebook Group please, where every day dozens of questions are being asked and answered: https://www.facebook.com/groups/quarkxpress/
Post Reply
urs7000
Posts: 32
Joined: 12 Oct 2017, 08:03

another ligature problem

Post by urs7000 » 06 Jul 2020, 10:26

Good evening,
I finished my book with QuarkXpress 2020 and found another ligature problem today :-(

(A) When I write a page of my book from Quark XPress 2020 or 2019 as a PDF file, (B) the ligatures are ok.

(C) But when I open or import this PDF file in Adobe Illustrator CC 2019 or 2020, all ligatures are missing.

This is very annoying. See screenshots.

(D) To check, I exported the same sentence as WORD text, wrote it from WORD as a PDF file and then opened this PDF file in Illustrator. All ligatures are present.

I use the font 'DejaVu Serif Condensed' in my book.

I will gladly send you the original files by e-mail.

Best regards Jens.
Attachments
screenshots.png
(681.17 KiB) Not downloaded yet

User avatar
MikeWenzloff
Posts: 459
Joined: 05 Jun 2013, 12:55

Re: another ligature problem

Post by MikeWenzloff » 06 Jul 2020, 11:51

Why is the pdf being opened as an editable thing in Acrobat?

In general, a pdf has zero knowledge of OpenType constructs that formed/created a feature such as ligatures. Depending on the pdf authoring application, how the glyphs are encoded in the pdf is important, but is only half the issue. The application opening the pdf for editing has to reconstruct the (sometimes) dual-encoding of the base characters (if such encoding is written into the pdf) in order to display a combination of characters as the ligature glyph. QXP generally uses this dual encoding when it makes the pdf--but this also depends on how the feature was constructed in the font.

Adobe Illustrator is the absolute worst application to ever open a pdf for editing. Adobe in general, and a few of the people at Adobe responsible for Illustrator and PDfs say this.

How Word is constructing a pdf so it can be opened in Illy so as the characters are forming a ligature is a new one to me. Having a sample pdf from Q & Word of the same text...one word or short sentence...would be nice. Such pdfs do not need to be your work product.

Mike

User avatar
MikeWenzloff
Posts: 459
Joined: 05 Jun 2013, 12:55

Re: another ligature problem

Post by MikeWenzloff » 06 Jul 2020, 12:31

Hmm. Had an unexpected break so I downloaded the font. QXP is not encoding Deja Vu fonts. I don't know why at this juncture.

Q2020 (back to v9) is properly a half dozen other fonts I tested (both commercial and Libre fonts).

Please file a bug report.

urs7000
Posts: 32
Joined: 12 Oct 2017, 08:03

Re: another ligature problem

Post by urs7000 » 07 Jul 2020, 01:56

Hello Mike,

I have created a small example for QXP 2019/2020 and WORD with DejaVu Serif and a custom mini font. It's to big to attache it in here :-(
I will put it into the private message to you.

I had a problem with the ligatures the other day, see viewtopic.php?f=64&t=30626

best regards Jens

User avatar
UtahLlama
Posts: 92
Joined: 18 Sep 2012, 08:39
Location: The Grand Line

Re: another ligature problem

Post by UtahLlama » 07 Jul 2020, 14:44

I can't help with your problem but
(C) But when I open or import this PDF file in Adobe Illustrator CC 2019 or 2020, all ligatures are missing.
Illustrator can not use the embedded fonts in a pdf.
There are quite a few reasons why opening a PDF in Illy is a bad idea, and a pdf that contains any fonts rather than being all vector outlines is fairly near the top.
Illustrator will have to correctly associate the Font name with the correct font and also have that font available on the host computer, almost certainly you'd expect a subset of the font in the pdf and the subset name change could confuse Illy.
I'd actually expect subtle changes and shifts in kerning and letter spacing in text opening a pdf in Illy, I've seen plenty of fit problems on press when inexperienced pre-press have tried to trap or make a Spot UV separation.
I'd check the pdf Font status in Acrobat 'Control D' whether its embedded or not, if its not then even what you view in Acrobat will rely on the host computer.

Honestly if Quark is making messier pdfs than Word its Game-Over :(

Post Reply

Return to “QuarkXPress 2020: General”