Quark's marketing silliness

Kick back on the couch and discuss all things not directly related to QuarkXPress.
Jim Oblak
Posts: 1009
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 19:06

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by Jim Oblak » 04 Apr 2005, 11:49

[img]../../themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">%20[strong]Tim%20OConnor:[/strong]...That%20coupled%20with%20this%20inceasent%20need%20to%20compare%20every%20indesign%20feature%20to%20some%20failure%20on%20Quark's%20behalf,%20demonstrates%20that%20Xpress%20has%20not%20been%20"Killed[/img]
You should check out the new X-Ray magazine where Quark authors cite InDesign incessantly, as if they have a need to defend Quark. Adobe could not buy that kind of publicity...

The issue about comparing Quark and InDesign was brought up by Quark in their advertisement. Why did they specifically cite 'Adobe' if we should not be comparing applications?

If you read the article on the web site, you will see the responses that the advertising campaign has generated in the industry. I did not mention the campaign here to continue a tired discussion. I mentioned it because it was a good archive of a previous discussion. It is at your option if you want to continue beating a dead horse.

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by Tim OConnor » 04 Apr 2005, 12:27

Greeting Jim...

While I have not yet had the time to read X-Ray, I have read about it and everything points to it being a partisan light weight marketing ploy, only slightly more subtle than the postcards.

Tiger and the now Announced CS2 will be eating up most of my reading time for the forseeable future.

But the point that Quark now seems to be imitating Adobe's practices does not make it anymore relevant to me personally

longtimedesigner
Posts: 79
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 11:01

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by longtimedesigner » 04 Apr 2005, 13:00

I don't believe Quark is immitating Adobe's practices, other than having launched a marketing campaign. That's where the similarities end.

Where the two marketing campaigns diverge is that Adobe kept it honest and played up its feature parity advantages (which were numerous). Quark doesn't have a leg to stand on regarding feature parity. Mostly, Quark resorted to overt Adobe-bashing and deceptive claims regarding features and a few other parameters (i.e. reliability and workflow).

Quark wanted to play in the mud. Not surprisingly, it's getting dirty.

willmark
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 07:05

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by willmark » 05 Apr 2005, 08:37

Longtimedesigner,
Man, no need to be so hostile, Tim is a very good guy and not a anti-adobe advocate like some here and in the past were and are.

Tim,
While I hear what you are staying I'll add this: many products are labeled "X" killer these days and for what its worth I place no stock in such statements. Adobe has never lowered itself to Quark's level with such tactics, nor to my knowledge have they ever said that InDesign is a Quark killer, others have done that for them... The death of product is never sudden, it usually lingers and dies a slow death much later. I place Quark with the fall of Rome, during the time no one could see it but we know how that one turned out. Things are rarely clear at the time. Im sure Aldus though the same thing in the late 80s with Painmaker.

Do I want Adobe to be the only game in town? No, but they have had the Image corner of the market for years with Photoshop and have they stuck to the customer like Quark has done repeatedly? No. Quark when they were the only game and town shafted their customers more times then I can count and laughed about it. So I fail to see just why I should spend my companies dollars after getting burned in the past It's not like they have done me any favors.

That being said I don't think Quark can hope to win against Adobe through sheer economics, spend a $1,000 on Quark or get everything you need from adobe for $1,300???

Add to this my belief that InDesign is not Quark's competition; Quark 4.11 is Quark's biggest competition. The magazine industry has and is leaving quark in droves. Quark is tightly trying to cling to anyone thing they can, newspapers being one.

Quark is still so ingrained because crybaby service bureaus and print houses still cling to their precious Quark like security blankets (not all, but quite a few). They were one of the single biggest obstructions (some still are) to the adoption of ID. I have never seen such vehement opposition to a program like I did for ID. Hell some would even take Publisher or Ragemaker Files over ID!

Claims that it wouldnt RIP were more often then not founded on nothing more than gross incompetence or unfamiliarity with the program. Saw it first hand; switched to printers that knew what they were doing, and ID Ripped fine, imagine that??? Jsut who aor what was teh problem here. Bear in mind Printers are the last ones I look to for the future of things. If it were up to many of them we would still be using hammer and slate or moveable wood type. Now Im waiting for the hue and cry of We cant waste thousands of dollars and millions on new equipment. Fine. Dont. Well take our business elsewhere.

Lastly, the thing that the printers forget is that they are a SERVICE. You dont get to dictate what we submit. As long as it is a competent file and well made, and meets the RIP requirements, take what we give you and quit the crying. If we choose to use ID, dont tell us no. Our old printer tried this crap with us and we pulled the plug completely to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. We have and excellent relationship with our primary printer now and they welcome change and new programs and ideas. We work together. And now we tolerate absolutely NO printer arrogance with any that we deal with. Its a case sometimes of forgetting just who is doing who a favor

To all print side people who might read this: Yes there are idiot designers out there that cant find their butt with two hands and a road map. ( I know, I used to work in pre-press and saw my fair share of poorly assembled files.). But there are just as many competent designers and companies out there too, and pissing them off because you dont like a program they want to use is going to get you nowhere, or in the case of our old printer, shown to the door

Bill Detty
Posts: 26
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 00:32

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by Bill Detty » 05 Apr 2005, 09:38

Puerile messages, fake attitude, and stolen concepts don't impress me. Well-crafted typography and design do.

Whoever created these postcards was so busy insulting the competition and patronizing their customers they didn't bother to kern the headlines or superscript the s or even correct the default word spacing.

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by Tim OConnor » 05 Apr 2005, 10:49

Like I said Willmark, we are never that far apart... These are all just tools...

They can all do great things in the hands of a skilled craftsman, too bad there are fewer and fewer skilled craftsmen {or women} in this businesss...

Everything these days is "How fast and How cheap?" followed by "What do you mean my files are wrong... it must be someone else's fault"...

willmark
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 07:05

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by willmark » 05 Apr 2005, 11:27

Little of the humour and commeradery of the past seems to have returned.

Agreed. This is not just DTP too this is America as a whole. We sleep too little, work way too much. We feel that we can't even take our vacations. In general people are more short, less patient or willing to compromise.

Also there is little sense of just where to spout off. I'm on Quark's forums, and as long as I confine my statements about this thread to this type of thread no harm no foul. But dropping them into tech related questions/threads in the other sections, is well rude... i wouldn't want that to happen on the Adobe boards either...

storm
Posts: 1
Joined: 08 Apr 2005, 16:52

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by storm » 08 Apr 2005, 17:02

[quote:2cef00b327]Agreed. This is not just DTP too this is America as a whole. We sleep too little, work way too much. We feel that we can't even take our vacations. In general people are more short, less patient or willing to compromise.


I've used Xpress since about 1989 (having originally endurind the living hell of 'Painmager' -(lmao!)) and have to agree with many on here that ID is now a superior product.

Will be sorry to see this particular work colleague get it's gold watch.

willmark
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 07:05

Quark's marketing silliness

Post by willmark » 14 Apr 2005, 07:12

Excellent Post Skyline!

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