Why, I ask, why?

Kick back on the couch and discuss all things not directly related to QuarkXPress.
kenlasley
Posts: 16
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 08:14

Why, I ask, why?

Post by kenlasley » 04 Jun 2004, 10:03

Great stuff Skyline.

I too would use Quark again if they implemented most of the things mentioned and support. Support is the big one. I did feel that the folks in Denver offered great support and most of them went well beyond the call of duty to assist their customers. (Are you listening to us FRED!) We users are telling you what needs to be done to save your prepress mothership.

Implement features such as transparency adaption. Good lord, creating a clipping path is outdated. Not too mention it is cumbersome. Adobe implemented it and being able to place native transparency files saves us much time when designing.

Drop the web based features, most of us who design web sites write code, use dreamweaver or GoLive. You are not going to catch that market, you missed the boat long ago on that. Instead implement a export for GoLive or Dreamweaver package.

Drop the JAWS export for the PDF. Instead use distiller or an engine geared more towards true postscript level compliance.

Give us features that enhance the user experience and make our job easier to do. Do not worry about third party developers to make extensions for this software to be what it should be out of the package. We do not mind paying the inflated prices for upgrades if we feel like it is an upgrade.

But to be honest, we do not feel like you have given us anything to be thrilled about. I upgraded to 5.0, but until Quark can come to grips with the issues mentioned and in this posts, count me out for future upgrades. I just do not see the benefits from it.

I am currently using InDesign, but would strongly consider using Quark again if you at least meet us halfway. The first thing I would look at, is moving support back to Denver.

Ken Lasley

willmark
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 07:05

Why, I ask, why?

Post by willmark » 04 Jun 2004, 11:38

We made the move to InDesign after numerous years in quark land. In the end it became a rather easy choice. Look at simple economics, Am I going to suggest to my comapny lets buy Quark for $1,045 dollars or will I suggest the Adobe Creative Suite for nearly around the same price? Its a slam dunk actually.

ggey
Posts: 5
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 15:35

Why, I ask, why?

Post by ggey » 04 Jun 2004, 15:40

I have always hated Quark, and I've taught it for Johns Hopkins University! However, I must admit that, having upgraded to v. 6.1 and using it native on Mac OS X, it is a much more decent program with many fewer troubles. Use it on a fast Mac, however! I'm using it on a dual-processor G5, and I still have display issues and it still crashes sometimes.

I have always and will always prefer Adobe products...including InDesign. It puts Quark to shame.

Jim Oblak
Posts: 1009
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 19:06

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Jim Oblak » 04 Jun 2004, 19:28

i also worry that Adobe may be a DTP monopoly if Quark truly flounders. What would be left to compete with InDesign? ...MS Publisher?


From the forum policy statement:

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).

ReneG
Posts: 115
Joined: 02 Jun 2004, 09:04

Why, I ask, why?

Post by ReneG » 04 Jun 2004, 20:45

[strong]Jim Oblak:[/strong]

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).

Good Jim for quoting that.

If they don't like the software, what are they doing here.

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Tim OConnor » 05 Jun 2004, 00:48

If you are looking for a reason to cheer for a commercial product... You might want to realign your priorities...


It is only software... Not a religion...

as for...
Jim Oblak wrote:



You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).



Check the user agreement of any other forum you frequent, I'll bet you find something very similar...

Only in the mind of a Quark hater is this passage significant. Any reason the spew, I guess...

It is just pagelayout software...

Jim Oblak
Posts: 1009
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 19:06

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Jim Oblak » 05 Jun 2004, 11:27

I wasn't copying the forum policy in support of any software - - I was just amused that this thread was being maintained on Quark.com despite the rumors about the previous forum's demise.

If you had frequented the other page layout forums over the past year, you would find many with the suspicion that Quark took down its forums because they feared the swell of criticism about their new product, which did not meet the features of another new design software. It is not good business sense to allow your product to be flambed by the public on your own site. Perhaps the deafening criticism of poor customer support heard throughout the printing industry prompted Quark to restore its forums, despite the possibility of threads like this.

Quark willing, long live open discussions!



Rene,

You said: If they don't like the software, what are they doing here.

I'm not the biggest fan of QuarkXPress but I monitor Quark forums because I occasionally need to use the software. For me, QuarkXPress has become a necessary evil and I will continue to upgrade. I create all new work (that does not need to be shared with Quark users) in InDesign. With some business partners, I'm creating InDesign documents even if I know that they only have QuarkXPress. Continuing to work in QuarkXPress with those particular documents would cost me significantly more in man hours than it would cost my business partners to switch to InDesign.

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Tim OConnor » 05 Jun 2004, 12:21

Jim.. I only included your name because it was quoted... nothing personal.

Almost all forums have engaged in speculation about Quarks' forums.
Amazing how many opinions are repeated until the "faithful" are convinced it is fact...

The members list show a large number of known Adobe regulars who not only claim they will never use Quark again, Claim that Quark died the instant Indesign was released, and that these forums were not relevant anyway...

Maybe they are just keeping themselves informed, lurcking, waiting to flame, whatever...

Point is, few regulars here openly start flame wars or bash Indesign as bad software. Some don't like it, some are afraid, some are uninformed...

Indesign users, on the other hand, gleefully brag about flameing those who justify staying in Quark {whatever version}. If that makes them feel better about themselves... who is argue...

But if they were right and Quark did die with Indesign 1.0, then the corpse is still coughing up blood, crying "I'm not dead yet... {A la Monty Python, The Holy Grail} But then Apple has been on the verge of going out of business for much longer than that. Has it not?

Flame wars are occasionally entertaining, butit does not pay the bills.

Bill Detty
Posts: 26
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 00:32

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Bill Detty » 05 Jun 2004, 20:46

[img]../../themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"> [strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]Almost all forums have engaged in speculation about Quarks' forums.
Amazing how many opinions are repeated until the "faithful[/img]
Agreed--but the unfortunate timing (and duration) of the forums' disappearance made such speculation nearly irresistable.

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Tim OConnor » 05 Jun 2004, 22:50

Bill Detty wrote:
Agreed--but the unfortunate timing (and duration) of the forums' disappearance made such speculation nearly irresistable.


The unfortunate Timing... Decision/Incompotence/Thoughtlessness... take your pick... Is entirely of Quark Inc.'s doing and they should accept any critism they get.

I won't go too far, because, the forums are a free to use service that Quark and other companies set up at a cost to promot the usage of their product.

I believe user pressure is directly reponsible for their return {Please reupholster the Sofa!} Gratuitus flame wars must have been seen as an Embarrasment.
Which is why some are already posting only to promot InDesign again.

Users do not have the right to have user forums, Companies do not HAVE to provide them. They are however a popular means of self promotion and cheap tech support. Obviously it was not a good public relations move to kill the forums.

That don't mean it won't happen again...[/quote]

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