Why, I ask, why?

Kick back on the couch and discuss all things not directly related to QuarkXPress.
Jim Oblak
Posts: 1009
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 19:06

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Jim Oblak » 06 Jun 2004, 12:35

Tim OConnor wrote:
I won't go too far, because, the forums are a free to use service that Quark and other companies set up at a cost to promot the usage of their product.

I contest the issue of 'cost'. phpBB, which the Quark forums operate on, is a totally free web application that runs on free PHP and free MySQL. The only cost is web hosting, which Quark already pays for. There is absolutely no cost involved in this forum - - its presence is in fact an asset to Quark that adds great value to their web site. For Quark not to have this free forum running any earlier is a disgrace to their customer support.

willmark
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 07:05

Why, I ask, why?

Post by willmark » 07 Jun 2004, 08:29

To all-

I count myself as a regular on the Adobe forums and I joined back up here for one simple reason, information. Even thou we switched to InDesign I still run into Quark on ocasion. We still have 4 of our 4.11 licenses installed, all the others are mothballed currently. The reson I still keep Quark in my frame of reference is because were I work we use InDesign, what happens if I have to get a new job and they use Quark? I'd much rather stay current on as many applications as possible. Hence I've tired out the 6 demo. Still after 12 years with Quark I now recommend InDesign wholeheartedly to anyone in my community.

As far as the forums being down for almost a year.... give me a break. Quark knew exactly what they were doing. When 5 came out word quickly spread through forums high and low despite some of the diehard regulars who said 5 was the "greatest thing since sliced bread", they know who they were/are. Quark could not afford to have people badmouthing them at a critical time, namely the biggest release in years as they had done for 5. If this was not the case, can Quark honestly expect us to believe that it required almost a year to bring the forums back on line. GMAB!

Tim-

Glad to converse with you again after almost a year. If I remember I rarely agreed with you but quite often I could respect your viewpoint. So it begins again...

Point is, few regulars here openly start flame wars or bash InDesign as bad software. Some don't like it, some are afraid, some are uninformed...

Im afraid Im going to have to call Shenanigans on this one. in the past forums, A great number of the entrenched users and longtime forum regulars would spew absolute venom anytime that InDesign was brought up, Ira, Jrs to name a few and some dude whose screen-name escapes me but billed himself as
the Desktop Specialist in his tag line. Some of the vitriolic rhetoric that they engaged in made one wonder. Others such as Linda were more sedate in their approach and would simply ask that the discussion be moved to the sofa.

I will acknowledge that nobody is perfect (least of all me) and save must of my ire for other companies (Quark's on the list but not the top of it) :), but will say that some Quark users in the past were just as guilty.

Quark is not free in this abuse much of they ill-will that the company has received over the years is of the own making. Its as if there were a book called "How to Alienate and Enrage Your Customers". If there were such a book it looks like Quark wrote it without any help.

:D

tabaks
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Jun 2004, 09:02

Why, I ask, why?

Post by tabaks » 07 Jun 2004, 09:03

To be quite honest, professionally and right now, I'd like to see the XPress v.6 fixed since we already bought our copies (and SHOULD HAVE waited and explored other avenues MUCH MORE). But, as far as I am concerned, I will use all my influence to PREVENT US FROM BUYNG FURTHER QUARK LICENSES/UPGRADES in the future before we KNOW that it will perform in accord with demands of modern computing/layout standards and trends (that may leave Quark in huge disadvantage) and we may very well end up abandoning it ALTOGETHER. We will NOT repeat the mistakes from the past any more! If I was in Quark management/development shoes, I would think WELL AND LONG about the state of quality of the program where my almost a decade-long customers are considering SWITCHING to other solutions. And we ARE, trust me (and we know we are not alone here, too)!

Anonymous

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Anonymous » 07 Jun 2004, 10:08

It's just a layout program? Why the emotion? wtf... come on you guys, get real. We lay out big bucks for this software.

Even in a small ad agency like ours, you take the cost to upgrade 9 computers from 4.11 to 5.0 plus the cost to upgrade 9 computers from 5.x to 6.0 and you will come up with a significant outlay.

AND, then you add to that 9 times of Badia Print tools, and 9 times of Badia ExportTools and 9 of times Badia BigPicture and 9 times of ALAP DropShadow extension, and you wonder why anyone would get emotional about a layout program! GEEZ dude...think about it.

Plus, we have to keep one computer in our shop on an empty desk solely devoted to QuarkXpress 4.11. That's so that we can downsave our 6.x files to 5.x and move them to this dedicated computer in-order to downsave the 5.x file to 4.x for publishers and printers who haven't upgraded yet. Why? Because QuarkXpress Technical Support (Oh and did I mention the Paid Tech Support Costs for all of these versions?) told us that to avoid conflict problems, we should not have two different versions of the program on a single computer.

Now, with all of that, what did we get? A layout program, that despite all of the add-on extensions we bought, still can't hold a candle to ID2.

Why the emotion over just a layout program. IT'S OUR LIVELYHOOD STUPID!

We have 12 years of QuarkXpress legacy files under our belts. A switch to ID would mean a slow and expensive update to our file library.

I am definitely emotional over a layout program. I feel ripped off for spending all of that money on Xpress 5. I feel angry that we had to maintain two operating systems while waiting for QUARK to catch-up with the rest of the Mac world. I feel angry at myself for remaining loyal to QUARk when I should have made the smart business decision two years ago and moved the entire shop to ID2.

So, while it may be "just a layout program" to you, it's much more than that to me and I dare say many others here in this fourm.

I want and NEED a great QuarkXpress! I've paid for a great QuarkXress through the nose. What I got instead was a weird and buggy 4.11 that finally functions in OSX. ID would have been a lot cheaper for us...A Lot Cheaper! I want and NEED QuarkXpress to meet or exceed all ID2 (very soon to be ID3) can do.

If you have to make a living with this layout software AND its cost comes out of your pocket, you gain a different perspective. I trust you've gained some insight now why someone can be emotional over a layout program.

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Tim OConnor » 07 Jun 2004, 10:21

Welcome back Wilmark...

Nice to see friendly faces, even those who occasionally disagree. Flame wars are started on both sides, no doubt... I don't apologize or justify the actions of anyone but yours truely.

Early versions of ID were not the second coming, though many claimed it was.
I am not innocent of flame wars, as you remember.

But if these threads were only populated by flamers, many users would feel as unwelcome as many of us do at Adobe's. OSX and Indesign are no longer experiments that can be safely ignored. users wioth an eye for the future should be looking well into both by now. I have spent much of the last year learning both and upgrading both my last job and my new one.

People of good conscience can, as you and I illustrate, disagree on the conclusion while agreeing on most of the facts. I don't find that true over there, so I am no more than a lurker seeking knowledge. I have read many of your posts there, so we have no been entirely out of contact. Sort of...

I use both Applications... that is what I am paid to do.

longtimedesigner
Posts: 79
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 11:01

Why, I ask, why?

Post by longtimedesigner » 07 Jun 2004, 10:36

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong]But if these threads were only populated by flamers, many users would feel as unwelcome as many of us do at Adobe's.

Adobe's boards aren't only populated by flamers, yet quite a few people who prefer InDesign feel unwelcome on Quark boards. It's not a one-sided issue. There are flamers here, and there are flamers there. Alluding to Quark users only being flamed on the Adobe boards isn't fair or realistic. Why do you want people to assume that Quark boards would only have to be populated by flamers to be equivalent to the Adobe boards?

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Tim OConnor » 07 Jun 2004, 11:18

If I thought Adobe's boards were populated ONLY by flamers, I would not bother reading them. Unfortunatly, the vocal minority sets the tone since few threads escape the constant bashing of quark users. It was understandable when ID was fighting for recognition, it has gotten old though.


i take technical knowledge from useful threads and leave the bickering to those with the desire and stamina. To each their own.

I don't want anyone to assume anything... but some days these threads would have to be populated by ONLY Flamers in order to equal Abobe's.

Frankly I found the old Quark Threads more informative and entertaining.
Time will tell about these new Quark threads.[/b]

longtimedesigner
Posts: 79
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 11:01

Why, I ask, why?

Post by longtimedesigner » 07 Jun 2004, 11:42

[strong]Tim OConnor:[/strong] but some days these threads would have to be populated by ONLY Flamers in order to equal Abobe's.

Clearly, I disagree and believe that this assessment is unfounded.

willmark
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 Jun 2004, 07:05

Why, I ask, why?

Post by willmark » 07 Jun 2004, 11:59

Skyline-

I posted here in the old forums albeit less once we migrated to ID, and I also frequently post in the Adobe InDesign and PM forums. That is where you most likely remember me from.

I work on both PCs and Macs in my department. Of which I prefer the Macs (I have 41 of them to manage).

Tim OConnor
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 Jun 2004, 15:44

Why, I ask, why?

Post by Tim OConnor » 07 Jun 2004, 12:31

longtimedesigner wrote:

Clearly, I disagree


As is your right :)

Post Reply

Return to “Sofa Threads”