PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Kick back on the couch and discuss all things not directly related to QuarkXPress.
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eyoungren
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by eyoungren » 07 Mar 2012, 04:27

Thanks Matthias. I'd probably have known that one if I had an Intel Mac, LOL! [:D]

MarkyBoy
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by MarkyBoy » 07 Mar 2012, 05:37

eyoungren wrote:
MarkyBoy wrote:That's really helpful Erik, thanks... One thing I am a bit confused about tho, is if I run Windows on the MAC (for Photoshop, Illustrator etc for the time being until I can afford MAC versions), will I just not have all the same issues as running Windows on a PC?!

See rcantin's statement.
Just to be clear so there is no confustion. You can run Windows on the new Intel Macs. But you can't run it simultaneously with OSX. You have to be booted into one OS or the other. You probably already know, but I'm stating it anyway.
If you'd like to run a Windows environment concurrently (or about as concurrently as you can get) you might look at Parallels. Parallels allows you to run INDIVIDUAL Windows programs inside OSX (and not the whole OS).
There's also a free Windows emulator called QEMU, but I don't know if that works on Intel Macs and it's likely to be slow.
Okay, that's fine I can do that... I heard that when you run Windows and OSX on the same machine, you have to split the RAM between the two systems... Is that still the case on the Intel MACS?

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eyoungren
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by eyoungren » 07 Mar 2012, 06:03

I think that would be the case if you were running an emulator inside of OSX. For example, I have Virtual PC7 with a Windows XP install. When I run it on my G4 the virtual machine claims up to 512MB of my 2GB of ram.
But in the case of dual booting you are only using one OS at any one time so the full amount of ram would be available I believe. I can't say for a fact that that's true, but I have never heard any complaints about having to split ram between two OSes.

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max.peter
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by max.peter » 08 Mar 2012, 21:57

You can run two OSes in the same time using Oracle Virtual Box, as Matthias said (I named it also on a previuos answer, earlier). The memory is "split" between the two OSes (or "shared", if you like), BUT you have the choise to adjust the used RAM memory for the virtual environment as you need. I guess you can also "share" the clipboard memory.

Of course, it's better if you have more RAM installed on your computer.

MarkyBoy
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by MarkyBoy » 08 Mar 2012, 22:03

max.peter wrote:You can run two OSes in the same time using Oracle Virtual Box, as Matthias said (I named it also on a previuos answer, earlier). The memory is "split" between the two OSes (or "shared", if you like), BUT you have the choise to adjust the used RAM memory for the virtual environment as you need. I guess you can also "share" the clipboard memory.

Of course, it's better if you have more RAM installed on your computer.
Thanks Max, I think that you and Matthias are talking about running Windows on an emulator, whereas Erik is talking about dual booting... Or have I misunderstood? If you dual boot, so boot up into Windows then the RAM is allocated fully but if you run windows virtually through an emulator then the RAM is split? I don't know this, I am only guessing from the posts made on this subject, does anyone know for sure? Thanks guys!

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max.peter
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by max.peter » 08 Mar 2012, 22:19

You are booting OS X. On OS X you can instal this emulator (VirtualBox) like any other program.
Inside Virtual Box (when OS X is running) you can make a second PC (a virtual one). Here you can create any PC you want: a Windows PC, a Linux station or a UNIX one). On this virtual station you can install any software accepted on that operating system. If you want to install Windows, you can do that. If you want to instal XPress on that Windows, you can do that.
Of course, if the Virtual Box is running when OS X is running, it'll use RAM memory as any other running software does.
You can read more about this Virtual Box here. You can also download it for free and try it.
I am using it for some years (I need some Linux software from time to time). It is a excellent software, very stable. Last week I've started to test how XPress for Windows works on Windows 8 Consumer Preview, using this VirtualBox software.

MarkyBoy
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by MarkyBoy » 08 Mar 2012, 22:27

Thanks Max, that does sound really useful.... However, someone here said that you can partition your hard drive, have Windows on one partition and OSX on the other, then you can choose what OS to boot into. This is important as for a time being I'll need to run software on both OSX and Windows and I don't want to have to split the RAM as I would under a virtual environment. So is partitioning the drive and booting into Windows possible or can Windows only be run through Virtual Box?

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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by max.peter » 08 Mar 2012, 22:47

I have not used a modern Mac in the past four years (I'm using Win as my primary option), but I assume it can be possible to make a dual boot station on a modern Intel Mac. Maybe a actual Mac user can tell you more. Maybe Erik can tell you better than me.

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Matthias Guenther (Quark)
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by Matthias Guenther (Quark) » 08 Mar 2012, 22:55

Hi Mark,
yes, that's possible, Apple calls that Bootcamp. So you let Apple's software partition your drive of an Intel-based Mac, one partition for Windows, one for OS X. And when booting you can decide which partition to boot, OS X or Windows. The one you boot into gets exclusive access to all system resources, so also to all RAM.
Only downside: You need a reboot if you quickly need to run somethign on the other OS.

To solve that VMWare Fusion (another virtualizer) has an interestign option, it let's you optionally run the WIndows that you put on a different Bootcamp partition while runnign OS X. Though all limitations apply (RAM split), you then have the option to either boot Windows natively (with all resources) or virtualized (and parallel to OS X).
Does that explain it?
And as Erik correctly points out, as QuarkXPress' license code is cross-platform, you are able to run your license on Windows and on OS X on the same machine without having to pay extra.

Thanks
Matthias

MarkyBoy
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PC to MAC - Is it worth it?

Post by MarkyBoy » 08 Mar 2012, 23:15

Matthias Guenther (Quark) wrote:Hi Mark,
yes, that's possible, Apple calls that Bootcamp. So you let Apple's software partition your drive of an Intel-based Mac, one partition for Windows, one for OS X. And when booting you can decide which partition to boot, OS X or Windows. The one you boot into gets exclusive access to all system resources, so also to all RAM.
Only downside: You need a reboot if you quickly need to run somethign on the other OS.

To solve that VMWare Fusion (another virtualizer) has an interestign option, it let's you optionally run the WIndows that you put on a different Bootcamp partition while runnign OS X. Though all limitations apply (RAM split), you then have the option to either boot Windows natively (with all resources) or virtualized (and parallel to OS X).
Does that explain it?
And as Erik correctly points out, as QuarkXPress' license code is cross-platform, you are able to run your license on Windows and on OS X on the same machine without having to pay extra.

Thanks
Matthias
Thanks Matthias, that explains it perfectly!
I have Quark 7.5 which apparently will not run on an Intel MAC under OSX, so I have to run it under Windows. So, I was planning to install it under Windows on an Intel MAC, then buy the current upgrade and install that under OSX... Will that wok?,
My goal is to run Quark on an Intel MAC without having to buy a complete new version, only to buy the upgrade... I have had Quark asince version 4 and really don't want to buy a complete new version only the upgrade... What do you think?

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