Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

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eyoungren
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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by eyoungren » 08 Aug 2018, 10:08

MikeWenzloff wrote:
07 Aug 2018, 17:03
ampegg66 wrote:
07 Aug 2018, 15:57
...
I tried to go to the Extensis user forums to discuss, but they've been shut down...
They may have not overly liked all the criticism they were getting. Articles they had have also gone away.
I think things started going downhill for Suitcase with the original version of Fusion. That release was nothing but a disaster and at the time forced me back to X1.

I'm stuck on Fusion 7 right now because I need OS 10.11 or higher to run Fusion 8. This work MP is still on Yosemite.
Erik Youngren • Pueblo Publishers, Composing Manager
2.8Ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro | InDesign CC17 | Suitcase Fusion 7
erik.youngren@erikyoungren.com
Quark forum member since 2001

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MikeWenzloff
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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by MikeWenzloff » 08 Aug 2018, 12:38

Hi Erik,

I have only tested Suitcase in its various incarnations, I've never owned a license for it. But in the testing periods, I visited the forums frequently. I have seen vicious forum posts off and on. But man, the latest version really drew people's ire. It was unrelenting.

And then, for QXP users, once the information spread that the former plug-in worked with the latest version of Q, they updated to block that even though they decided to drop Q support altogether. Really kind of underhanded even though not wrong per se. It was a mess.

Oh well. Tis their business if they want to drop the forums and articles--many of the articles were really good articles on FM use, fonts in general and specifics about them, asset management, etc. Pity that they perhaps threw out the baby with the bath water. Maybe those things are getting a refresh...but I don't know.

Windows can generally run older software just fine. That is both a blessing and a curse. It appears MS is moving more towards a dropping of both older hardware & software like Apple does. It hurts to spend more money on those things but the computing experience is generally better for it--if it doesn't happen as fast as Apple does, anyway.

Mike

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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by eyoungren » 08 Aug 2018, 13:06

I've never frequented their forums. But based on your story there it sounds a lot like the garbage that happened here after the release of QuarkXPress 5. The forum went offline for a year and a half and only came back after the release of XPress 6.0.

At home I use PowerPC Macs and Dropbox stopped supporting them in 2015. For a short while there was a way to work around that until they fixed that. Fortunately there was a dev that reverse engineered their desktop app for two, almost three years but Dropbox actively blocked him whenever they could.

I bring this up because it sounds like Extensis now seems to be taking this route while backing InDesign. That's unfortunate because there are two players in the layout/design space, three if Affinity ever gets their layout app launched. It's one thing to not support stuff anymore, it's another thing to actively block it from working and shut it down wherever you find it.

To me that takes almost as much work as continuing to fund development for the product. It's just a dumbass course of action to take.

Fortunately, Quark (after rolling some heads around this place, LOL!) has never gone beyond the verbal/written statement of non-support for older versions. While not continuing to support older versions, Quark isn't actively trying to prevent them from functioning on older hardware. Something to appreciate here at least.
Erik Youngren • Pueblo Publishers, Composing Manager
2.8Ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro | InDesign CC17 | Suitcase Fusion 7
erik.youngren@erikyoungren.com
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MikeWenzloff
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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by MikeWenzloff » 08 Aug 2018, 14:35

eyoungren wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 13:06
...
I bring this up because it sounds like Extensis now seems to be taking this route while backing InDesign. That's unfortunate because there are two players in the layout/design space, three if Affinity ever gets their layout app launched. It's one thing to not support stuff anymore, it's another thing to actively block it from working and shut it down wherever you find it.

To me that takes almost as much work as continuing to fund development for the product. It's just a dumbass course of action to take.
Sometimes the internals in QXP require doing some changes in XTensions and recompiling. In the case of version 2018, recompiling wasn't necessary. Many/most of the more expensive XTensions are tied to Q versions, though. And those did take a simple recompile as nothing was broken by the new Q version. For instance, I use the heck out of both XData and XTags. They wouldn't have worked in Q2018 without Em Software recompiling them. Perhaps because there was no actual work required, Em Software simply recompiled them and they are available at no upgrade cost should one have bought the versions for Q2017. That is the exact opposite of what Extensis did.

Two different companies, two different responses--and one of them actively blocking them working via an update. I've wondered if Extensis is actively or passively support Adobe versus Quark. It doesn't make sense to me if that is so. Where's the gain? Seems to me there is only a downside (unless Adobe is going to Purchase Extensis).

As regards Affinity Publisher: Beta will be out in a week or so. It will not really be a contender for your or my work (and mine is pretty simple in comparison to a newspaper). I do look forward to the public beta, though. I will purchase a license and watch the progress. But man, Serif needs more application programmers to make any headway on adding features and bug fixes.
eyoungren wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 13:06
Fortunately, Quark...has never gone beyond the verbal/written statement of non-support for older versions. While not continuing to support older versions, Quark isn't actively trying to prevent them from functioning on older hardware. Something to appreciate here at least.
The 1st update to Q2018 just killed support for Yosemite. The announcement is here on the forum. It literally will not start on it. The same goes for Windows 7. Support for the next version of Q will not start on Win7.

Mike

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eyoungren
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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by eyoungren » 08 Aug 2018, 15:27

MikeWenzloff wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 14:35
The 1st update to Q2018 just killed support for Yosemite. The announcement is here on the forum. It literally will not start on it. The same goes for Windows 7. Support for the next version of Q will not start on Win7.
Not that it matters at the moment, but I will just say this.

XPress 6.0 launched when Panther was the norm. It was still usable on up into Snow Leopard even with a few issues.

I'm not arguing work/won't work, simply that Quark doesn't set out on purpose to make non-supported versions NOT work.

As far as the Em Software/Extensis example, yeah. That's exactly what I mean. Who knows, maybe Adobe's next killer feature will be integrated font support because they vacuumed up Extensis!
Erik Youngren • Pueblo Publishers, Composing Manager
2.8Ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro | InDesign CC17 | Suitcase Fusion 7
erik.youngren@erikyoungren.com
Quark forum member since 2001

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Matthias Guenther (Quark)
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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by Matthias Guenther (Quark) » 08 Aug 2018, 15:44

MikeWenzloff wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 14:35
The 1st update to Q2018 just killed support for Yosemite. The announcement is here on the forum. It literally will not start on it.
We unfortunately had to. Though never supported on Yosemite, QX2018 started and pretended to work. So many people did it.

However over 90% of the crash reports submitted for QX2018 were on Yosemite and they were data loss crashes (no Rescue Folder). And it virtually wouldn't have been possible to fix these. So we had to make the tough decision to prohibit launching/using it on Yosemite. We have never done that before I believe.
MikeWenzloff wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 14:35
The same goes for Windows 7. Support for the next version of Q will not start on Win7.
Well there we made the decision to "not support Windows 7 in 2019 anymore". No decision yet to stop making it work on Win 7.
Reason for stopping to support Windows 7: Microsoft will stop supporting Windows 7 in January 2020. So how could we support it longer?

Cheers guys!
Matthias
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MikeWenzloff
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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by MikeWenzloff » 08 Aug 2018, 17:43

Hi Matthias--as regards Win 7, I misunderstood the distinction i.e., not work versus not supported. I myself could care less about it actually running on Win 7. A sparse few other applications are planning on it due to the "advancements" in rendering on Win 10. Which will only continue. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, while I will hate spending more money for HW, this laptop probably cannot go much further down the Win 10 road. So I too will be forced to upgrade HW due to the OS.

MacOS...this I also understand. Just too many changes in the OS to also build a modern application for a newer OS. It's a choice I am glad I didn't have to make but I would have as well. Advance the application or live in the past.

Best regards, Mike

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Re: Suitcase Fusion 19.1.0

Post by MikeWenzloff » 08 Aug 2018, 17:46

eyoungren wrote:
08 Aug 2018, 15:27
...Who knows, maybe Adobe's next killer feature will be integrated font support because they vacuumed up Extensis!
It sort of makes sense.

At least for Adobe applications, they have a great solution with the document fonts folder that can work at the file level or Adobe application level. It would be a natural thing to extend that to the OS level.

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